Dawn Butler and biology

[HDDD]

Clip from GBM interview this morning.
twitter.com/JammersMinde/status/1229439480064610308
She said "Babies are born without sex"
Unless she said something after to clarify what she meant by this or backtracked then I guess this is her starting point....
Astounding. Labour have lost the plot, and me.

Indeed, @R0wantrees, the press sometimes don't understand what they're saying when they attempt to report on Dawn Butler's not understanding what she's saying.

If babies are born without sex, then how do people grow up to be "c*s"? (Not my word obvs)

C*s = sex matches gender identity
Trans = sex disagrees with gender identity

When does the matching and mismatching occur? I just don't get it

@Violetparis, I wonder if it's that (a) female politicians are targeted much more by extreme lobbyists because (b) females are socialised to be 'nice'?

AutumnCrow Yes, transcribing Dawn Butler's answers & then writing an article would be challenging. Journalists need to insist on clarification during the interview.

AutumnCrow I wondered if it was the 'nice' conditioning too. I do think there is a well meaning element to all of this but it just hasn't been thought through properly, bit concerning though when politicians aren't thinking about the consequences of their actions/words.

Is the trans-targeting of female politicians is just another form of sexism?

Depressing.

People pondering whether DB is cynical or stupid. It's perfectly possible to be both of course.

It's so depressing, all these female candidates make me ashamed to be a woman. Seriously, why are they so crap? Surely we can do better than this bunch of weak, illogical pushovers. Women everywhere are absolutely desperate to support a strong female leader, but instead we get: babies don't have a sex, rapists should be put in female prisons if they want, feminist organisations are 'hate groups', women shouldn't be allowed to discuss their own rights, a woman is anything a man says it is. Talk about some self-loathing going on there, just so long as you get the beardy bloke votes though, eh, lasses.

Its not just female politicians.
There are plenty of male MPs who will be exposed as behaving cynically, stupidly or both with regards failing to protect Safeguarding & Womens (sex-based) rights.

Yes, of course. It's just that I'd expect a woman to show a bit more awareness of what it's like to be a woman.

Yes, there's definitely been concerted forced teaming & lobbying of female MPs & members of House of Lords.
None of which mitigates their responsibility.

Why have none of them got a bloody spine?! It’s been left to the normal woman on the street (and a few, too few, men) to say that the emperor has no clothes.

I have just seen this. Yes , it is we that need “educating” .
Also Zarah Sultana, a Coventry MP, wildly waving a little trans flag... Coventry ffs. Has she no idea of the impact of mixed sex spaces on muslim women ?

The guardian link near the top of the thread is, surprisingly, well worth a read...

'If most giraffes have any “true, authentic selves”, in short, they would be bisexual, aromantic. And, as fathers, they set a very bad example.'🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Sarah Sultana should link up with Coventry's own Aimee Challenor to do a cross-Party Trans Politics Education Day.

That would be a treat and a half.

Zarah Sultana

Nadia Whittome MP
"As far as I’m aware, I was the first MP to sign these pledges and publicly support the campaign. It’s perfectly reasonable to support a trans sister’s call for education before expulsions, i.e. expulsions as a last resort."
twitter.com/NadiaWhittomeMP/status/1229724791206285313

Recommended re-education program outlined by Christie Neary published by Labour List
( co-founder of the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights.)
extract
But the problem of transphobia is widespread. If Labour were to attempt to purge the party of transphobic views bureaucratically, it is likely to end up expelling swathes of people whose transphobic views are not well-thought-out. Instead, they may be ignorant, or see their advocacy of women’s rights as being in conflict with trans rights.

Such a wave of expulsions would not only distance us from many who could, with some patience and education, be won round to the cause of trans rights. It would also serve to make party machinery the decision-maker as to who has crossed the line and therefore must be expelled. Such a situation would make Labour’s current inadequate democratic culture even worse.

If not expulsions, then what? I would advocate for a concerted campaign of education on the topic of trans rights as well as a culture of open debate and discussion. This is where our ideas come from, and it is the lifeblood of a vibrant labour movement. This position can be caricatured: some assume that what is being called for is a staged debate between a trans person on one side and someone who seeks to deny trans people of their right to any kind of dignified existence on the other. This is, of course, not what is meant.

What I’m talking about is fora in which people are able to effectively challenge and convince those that hold transphobic views of the importance of supporting the rights of trans and non-binary people. We have to educate activists – including trans people, as well as cis allies – in order to give people the skills to confidently challenge these ideas wherever they rear their head in the labour movement.

LCTR will have a key role to play in facilitating education in the Labour Party and creating a culture in which trans and non-binary people are able to engage in the movement that best represents their class interests."
labourlist.org/2020/02/labour-should-combat-transphobia-through-education-not-expulsions/

Nadia Whittome, Labour MP for Nottingham East (@NadiaWhittomeMP) has just tweeted the following:

"Yes, as I’ve said above, unrepentant transphobes/racists/misogynists etc. should be expelled.

The Labour Party should educate those who are ignorant rather than ideological. And if they don’t respond to education, they should also be expelled."

She has a very, very comfortable majority (over 15,000), although that majority fell at the last GE.

Her replies are a hoot, though.

Someone has asked her if 're-education' will be in fully-automated luxury gulags.

#labourlobotomy

Is re-education a good thing now in Labour policy?

But... Christie Neary at least honestly states that they were a founder of Labour Campaign for Trans Rights a d helped to write the pledges... but thinks at least one of the pledges was unwise and unhelpful. AFTER playing a part in exposing all the female party leadership candidates to incredulous ridicule for signing their red-mist tantrum in the first place.

I'm not letting the candidates off; they're grown women who should take responsibility for their actions. But how is it remotely helpful to Labour, trans people or women to put together an intemperate Trumpian wishlist and somehow get it to besmirch candidate reputations,and then to say 'oh sorry, that was a bit strong, didn't really mean it'?

I'm guessing the aim was to get out in front of any rearguard action on statement of women's rights as happened just before the election. Ie it was all about factional scrapping, with no actual vision of why trans people should see the Labour party as a trans positive force at all. Trans ideology is about individualism, denial of class interest and privacy above all. Why us every trans person not a Tory?

GC 'hardcore' WPUK organisers /'ring leaders' to be identified & expelled
The 'ignorant' will be educated
The ideological will be expelled along with 'the ignorant' who do not learn the lessons.

The use of 'unrepentant' is really horrible. Ringleaders. God.

Also Zarah Sultana, a Coventry MP, wildly waving a little trans flag... Coventry ffs. Has she no idea of the impact of mixed sex spaces on muslim women ?

Organised by James Murray MP
(Labour and Co-operative MP for Ealing North🌹✊. Former Deputy Mayor of London for Housing)