Help me reply to Lord Lucas now before debate on Monday

[refusetobeasheep]

He has responded to my email asking him to ensure the definition of women is born female at birth.

His question: How in a women's communal toilet can you reasonably ascertain whether another person is a woman or not?

Please give me your best answers now before I reply.

Especially safe guarding points!!

Will mention the way men walk, talk, look ... that entirely possible i have not spotted a post op trans before. but i would spot a bearded man or someone who made me as a woman feel unsafe. And the new self -ID would mean I would have to ignore my instincts and happily allow any man who says he is a woman to access my communal changing area / that of my 9 year old daughter ..

Yes!! Baroness Nicholson says that the NHS needs to review their guidelines back into line with the intention of the ACT.

Tanni!! (Sorry, not respectful of her title, but I worked with her a long time ago briefly. She's awesome)

So on point Tanni

Now Baroness Grey-Thompson is also calling for keeping safe same sex toilets. And is asking for more gender neutral while keeping the women's too.

I’m a big fan of Baroness Nicholson. I emailed her not long ago (about “ROGD”) and she replied straight away.

Tanni disclosing her need to self-catheterise, particularly when on her period, and what a vulnerable position it puts her in.

I'm still on Baroness Brinton reciting that 'poem'. She's also receited fake suicide stats, poor old trans people's feelings (but sod women's feelings) and TW do not commit crime at the same rate of men (they do!).

Another Lib Dem (Baroness Barker) stating that it is not progressive to go back over these debates and that Stonewall and transgender people are in need of moving forward.

Baroness Barker - what purpose does he think is served by having this debate over and over again. There have been various points which are a proxy debate for the GRA, many of the points made I could take issue with, but I don't have time, but Lord Lucas, criticisms of Stonewall and Fawcett Society they have had to face intemperate remarks.

Every time we have this debate, doesn't move debate forward. Not doing women any great favour by increasing their fears without an evidence base to do with (??? what!!)

No evidence to back up his assertion. What research has been done on crimes in unisex toilets. What breakdown on types of result?

Are people more likely tor report crimes in unisex toilets because they dislike them? Or different venues?

It seems to me that we need to do two things - look to America where there's bathroom bills (TARGET!) and where people take it into their own hands people's physical look get challenged (HANG ON, YOU GOT RESEARCH ABOUT THAT B BARKER?)

We're propsing to take away a right they already have. Transwomen use women's toilets all the time.

Baroness Barker is Lib Dem!

Tanni is PROPERLY brave

back over these debates

Back over these debate..... Pretending they've happened before.

Thanks Pombear.

Baroness Barker:

Women should be fearing men, it's not transwomen who are (?) crimes against them.

We are not having a rational debate that [Lord Lucas] wants.

Seeing as there's no evidence that EA is having any affect, we should keep it as it protects transwomen, women and transwomen.

How can Barker listen to Tanni explain how she has to catheterise herself with the toilet door open in the women's toilets and then come out with these LIES!

I thought I was completely over-killing it by sending Lord L the whole contents of the 'it will never happen' resource threads, I'm glad I did now in the face of the claims that there has been no evidence of men abusing women's toilets / changing spaces

MrsSnippy - LibDems

Vice president of Local Government Association Lord Kennedy of Southward calls for a longer debate in future.

Supports calls for more public toilets.

Nicholson and Grey-Thompson raise important issue of long way to go to meet adequate needs. We must have an open and respectful debate to address concerns, and sorry to hear about her abuse on social media which is unacceptable.

Re toilets and changing facilities in public debates - only by discussing these issues we can come to agreement on way forward. Need to talk in a calm manner, not aggressive, in a sensitive way.

3 issues:
Parity of access between men and women.
Need more womens' than men for parity.
Needs of trans community to feel safe, protected and not discriminated agains.
Needs of women, again, to feel safe, protected and not discriminated against.

Respecting people, respetcting difference must be the right thing to do.

Often people,, trans people, are abused. Also we need to make policy, regulation, and decisions on evidence and to challenge ourselves on what we think are acceptable norms or attitudes.

I listened carefully to Lord Blencathra - some of comments weren't particularly helpful. This isn't about satisfying an aggressive militatnt lobby...need to come to discuss mattter in a reasonable way, respect to both Stonewall and Fawcett.

I want to accommodate both demands in public buildings...some public buildings have switched over to gender neutral facilities.

I may be right, in Southwark, main toilets are all gender neutral.

Baroness Bloomfield extensively on the history of women's toilets!

Bloomfield:

"It became illegal not to ensure there were separate male and female toilets"

"Statutory guidance....british standards are by themselves voluntary but we often refer to them as...approved ways of complying with guidance. Sanitary installation part 1...etc!"

" Standard applies to new buildings, communal changing, swimming pools, shops etc. Standard gives helpful gender guidance, tables male to female ratios....developers will use estimate of population using the building...if not know...20% more female. If the guidance was followed it would recommend equal number, doesn't explicitly recommend gender neutral but that they should be fully contained" (SOmeone's been reading Michelle Moore's work?!)

Baroness Bloomfield is up now talking about urinary leash for women in a historical sense.

And discussing the times transwomen can be excluded from single sex spaces. She is awesome tonight.

Blimey the Lib Dems are a master class in gaslighting aren't they?

Bloomfield:
"where there are problems, a LA can require owner to put it right. If gender is causing problems, an LA can require it to put it right.

Baroness Nicholson referred to her concerns...access to facilities when you need them is important with regards to pregnancy, disability, sex or gender...we have protected rights under the EA Act and I would like to reassure Baroness N that the Act protects those rights [lists those rights]. The act is clear that trans people should be treated as the gender they present but that can be excluded and determined on case by case basis.

Does include people intending to, undergone transition which doesn't require medical treatment. ....We are committed to maintaining safeguards for women....law makes clear...provide safe spaces for those using them. The EA also allows people with Gender Reassignment to be excluded where it's necessary and proportionate.

Regulations and standards need to be progressed in our culture, regulation and technology. We have best practice standards..on how to progress standards....

[lots on regulatory framework on Dame Judith Hackett's recommendations on building and fire safety including review to upgrade safety]

Specific questions raised by Lord Lucas, there's no recommendations or prescription for gender-neutral toilets.

B Nicholson and Grey-Thompson have mentioned to me the lack of accessible toilets re availability...it's not always a question of legislation.

I'm afraid the data on incidences of theft and assault is not what this dept holds but will be from Home Office and I will endeavour to find out, and what practical arrangements are made to police these spaces.

Baronness Thompson mentioned...our review includes accessible toilets, including Changing Places toilets and the wider provision of accessible toilets in public places.

Baronness Greengross rightly drew attention to the removal of public toilets, a point very well made, which I also raised a question on last year.

She also mentioned the good work the APPG is doing on the Bins for Boys campaign and that Network Rail has abolished charges for most London network rail stations."

Thanks for all the transcription, pombear

pombear