Help me reply to Lord Lucas now before debate on Monday

[refusetobeasheep]

He has responded to my email asking him to ensure the definition of women is born female at birth.

His question: How in a women's communal toilet can you reasonably ascertain whether another person is a woman or not?

Please give me your best answers now before I reply.

Especially safe guarding points!!

Will mention the way men walk, talk, look ... that entirely possible i have not spotted a post op trans before. but i would spot a bearded man or someone who made me as a woman feel unsafe. And the new self -ID would mean I would have to ignore my instincts and happily allow any man who says he is a woman to access my communal changing area / that of my 9 year old daughter ..

I agree with the other posters, it's great he's done this so people can compare the numerous, common sense answers given here, versus his argument which seems to be 'women are thick'. Anyone who's dealt with MRAs online will recognize the tone and see this guy for exactly what he is.

Do you think he is genuinely incapable of noticing that a transwoman is a transwoman? He seems to think we are loons for saying it is really really hard for a transwoman to pass.

TorkTorkBam I find that difficult to believe. I suggest his need to ridicule and gaslight women talking about their ability to recognise men is coming from another place entirely.

Anecdotal, I know, but my DP often will not clock a transwoman while my Mum and I are thinking it’s obvious.

Blokes don’t spit it because they don’t need to, as others have suggested.

Crikey, that Owain Sutton person is really unpleasant, isn't he? Unpleasant and utterly immune to reason. Rarely a winning combination, ime.

Goodness, my first time on Twitter. Flattered, I'm sure.

Thing is, if the delightful Owain Sutton thought about this from a female perspective for thirty seconds, he might just twig why women don't want penis-people in the ladies' loos.

Here's a clue, Owain, since I know you're reading this: XY people are, on average, heavier and stronger than XX people. An XX person doesn't, on the whole, relish the prospect of an XY person following her into an empty ladies', for exactly that reason. Same as in the otherwise empty carriage of a late-night train, only more so. And the thing is, Owain, whatever the situation may be with transwomen, allowing obvious men to waltz into female-only spaces whenever they feel like it opens a bloody great loophole which sexual predators WILL - on past form - rush through in their bloody droves.

Now post on that on Twitter for me, there's a love.

If you don't, we'll know it's because you know I've made a valid point. And if you do, lots of other people will read it and make their own judgment.

Quite, the lack of empathy is astonishing. The everyday reality of women's lives involves being vigilant to protect ourselves from men - on the street, on public transport, in taxis, in any kind of confined spaces. Ask any woman how she would feel if she was in a public toilet on her own at night and, let's say, a drunk man comes in and starts unzipping his flies. What kind of thoughts would go through her head? Did he follow me in here? How drunk is he and what kind of mood is he in? If friendly, is he too friendly? Is he aggressive? Will I need to make small talk to placate him if he starts bothering me? Do I have a clear path to the door or will it be difficult to get past him if he's blocking my way? Is there anyone else outside I can call on if I need it? Will he stand over me staring and making me uncomfortable or making remarks if I need to buy tampons from the machine, or condoms, or put makeup on? Is he going to flash his dick and/or leave the door open whilst he's pissing? This is not paranoia, all these kinds of scenarios happen often enough for these questions to be asked and for women to assess their safety in this way. For women who've been assaulted, being alone in a confined space with an unknown man can trigger flashbacks. It could of course be the sweetest man in the world who's just going for a piss, but the issue for women is that we simply don't know who someone is when a random stranger walks through the door. This applies to all males, no matter how they identify. I suggest this fella does a bit of soul-searching about how he's being so flippant about women's safety the traumatic experiences of male violence and sexual violence we carry around with us, as he claims men are fully capable of having empathy, but has demonstrated only contempt for women's experiences.

The everyday reality of women's lives involves being vigilant to protect ourselves from men

Indeed. As another poster pointed out on another thread, women are trained in this from an early age. Don't walk alone at night, always have your keys ready, don't get drunk, watch your drink, don't wear revealing clothes, always tell someone where you're going, etc

And any time she doesn't follow these rules, she will be ripped apart by police/court barristers if anything does happen to her. Like having her underwear held up in court for the jury to see just how revealing it was. Like being asked on national TV why she didn't get a taxi by Eammon Holmes.

I can imagine "well, what did you think you were doing going to into the toilets alone?" being added to the list of "safety rules women have to follow".

Is it bad that I am proud mine was the first comment the lovely Owain posted on his thread? He just hugely expanded my audience! My first public outing! I will be signing autographs later!!

My first appearance on twitter too, as far as I know!

Apparently mumsnet is capable of causing a twitter pile on yet Owain keeps posting from this thread and pretty much nobody on Twitter has liked or retweeted. Tumbleweed. Tumbleweed. Tumbleweed. I don't think I've ever seen a mumsnet-bashing tweet so ignored. He keeps trying though. None of the TRAs want to retweet to spread the word about how unreasonable we are. I wonder why?

My first appearance too AFAIK.

This is the Streisand effect isn’t it? The more he retweets our words, the more people will be made to think!

I think that is why his mates are not retweeting the screenshots.

Too much sense in them.

I wonder if he's heterosexual. If so, I presume he would be prepared to have sex with a transwoman with a penis, otherwise his sneering at the fact that we can tell a male from a female would appear a tad hypocritical. I'd also love to know, seeing as the argument goes that transwomen need to use female spaces to protect them against male violence, why it's not male violence that's being tackled so that transwomen can feel safe in male spaces. Not a good look, passing the buck onto women - transphobic, even, this need of beardy males to push transwomen into female spaces and out of men's.

A man could disguise himself as a woman and sneak into the toilets now.
But ENTITLING men by law to use Ladies toilets is a different matter.
Seems an obvious difference to me. As far as a woman feeling safe entering public toilets.

A man could disguise himself as a woman and sneak into the toilets now.

Of course he could (but it never happens). The difference now is that people, men or women, would feel they could call him out.

I’ve spotted this too late to respond, but please keep us posted, OP.

I’d say it’s a composite of many things: size, shape (including tits stuck onto male body), adam’s apple, gait, voice of course, drag-queen make-up, size of hands and feet, movement. He may not have all of these, but even two or three gives you a strong clue.

Hate to break it to you, Owain, but if you'd sleep with a transwoman with a penis, you're not heterosexual, you're either gay or bisexual. Perhaps this is where your hatred of women is coming from, you're wrestling with being in the closet. Although I guess you're out now - congratulations! Perhaps now you can do a bit of work on yourself so you don't have to spend your youth monitoring women's chat boards in an attempt to belittle and gaslight those talking about defending their rights, safety and dignity - mummy issues, much? Go out and get some dick, FFS!

He’s really loving the attention on this thread isn’t he. Shame none of his mates are bothered or impressed so aren’t engaging in his moment of fame!

Yep, he's not too popular:
"Owain Sutton was the Green Partycandidate in Broadheath in the Trafford local election . They got 152 votes."

Lord Lucas due on any minute - on parliamentlive.tv

Still on the "Legislation: Terrorist Offenders (Restriction of Early Release) Bill – Second reading and all remaining stages" topic, obvs I'm bumping the thread but - I'm finding this absolutely fascinating!
I think most of the Lords are half asleep though!
Perhaps Lord Lucas' debate will wake them up.