Caroline Flack and CPS criticism

[whatnow40]

Posting here as I haven't seen anyone else really question this. The CPS are being criticised for pursuing a prosecution, even though the alleged victim said he didn't support it and did not want to prosecute.

Am I wrong in thinking it's not up to the victim? And the CPS should be supported in pursuing a prosecution for domestic violence where there is enough evidence to not need a victims statement? Is there a policy on this? I just think that if this was alleged male on female violence, more questions would be asked about this aspect.

Yes she was scared of the consequences, and so she should be. Yes it's tragic she took her own life, rather than go through a trial that would allow her to defend herself, or reveal truths she wanted hidden. But shouldn't we remember someone for the entirety of their actions?

The assault was serious. She broke a lamp over his head while he was sleeping. The CPS was right to go ahead with the prosecution. DV should not be tolerated whoever commits it.

This is the 1st sensible post I've read all weekend in regards to CF, since her death everyone has been glossing over the fact she was charged with DV and laying blame with everyone Barr her.
A few weeks before she assaulted her bf, my then bf assaulted me very badly and as a result he not only lost his job he lost absolutely everything.
I have pressed charges and it is still going through court, but even if I didn't the cps would still have gone ahead with the court case, like her he is also pleading not guilty.
He has and continues to suffer with his mental health, all weekend I've been thinking if he committed suicide as a result of his actions would be people now be saying what a wonderful person he was and be casting doubts on my version of events.
It's been very difficult to read people minimising DV over the weekend

I agree CPS don't always get everything right. We saw that last week with the overblown Scottow prosecution but it would be a seriously regressive move to not prosecute any DV cases where the victim withdraws. Overall that would do more harm than good.

@MsSafina

The purpose of the trial was to establish whether that was the case or not. You appear to have found her guilty without that formality.

BobbyBlueCat great post.

I’ve been waiting for someone to point out the inconsistencies in all this.

I agree that your post is really excellent @BobbyBlueCat and eloquently sets out what I've been thinking. It's a tragedy - obviously - when someone takes their own life but the hypocrisy and double standards in all aspects of this case have astounded me.

BobbyBlueCat Well said.

I’m glad you posted here Whatnow40 because I’ve been thinking about this myself. I absolutely agree with the posters commenting that it suits the tabloids to blame the CPS in order to distract from their own coverage over the past few months.

Those who say that the CPS should not have prosecuted because her boyfriend did not want to press charges must know very little about domestic violence. We would all be rightly outraged and fear a woman was being coerced if a case against a man were dropped in similar circumstances.

However, the coverage of her attendance at the magistrate’s courts was incredibly over the top. I kept on trying to remember if a high profile man charged with a similar offence had got the same sort of treatment. I couldn’t come up with anyone.

I think there are a lot of really things about celebrity culture that this sad case has highlighted.

There was a radio programme this morning about a helpline for men who have experienced domestic abuse. It operates on a shoestring and nearly closed down last year. That is the reality for organisations providing this service, not high profile cases that are tragic for the individuals concerned, their families and friends but which are not typical.

Bobby Thank you for being able to explain it all so perfectly.

@BobbyBlueCat wonderful read just had an argument with someone in RL along the same lines. Clearly a tragic end to the tale but if the gender were reversed. There is no context in which violence is acceptable. It’s not about context

@BobbyBlueCat, excellent post.

There is a reasonably similar male equivalent. Mark Salling (Puck from Glee) committed suicide after he was convicted of possession of child abuse images.

His co stars on Glee were abused really quite badly on social media for posting about the sadness of his death. (Even though most of them acknowledged what he had done in the same sentence.)

My other thought is that it would have been fairly easy for the CPS to not prosecute this case. They could have dropped it and then the boyfriend made a statement about how he totally agreed and how marvellous everyone was and then the whole thing disappear whilst leaving the CPS looking quite good.

The fact that they didn’t makes me thing that they were doing what they thought was right.

@BobbyBlueCat AMAZING post, thank you so much for articulating all that and being a voice of reason.

I find the whole thing quite difficult to process. I believe people commit suicide because they are mentally ill, not in response to events. I feel very sorry that Caroline Flack was in that place.
I don't think we should be blaming the CPS at all.
I do however think social media has a role because she got so much negative press and lost her job, which must have been hard to deal with if she was feeling low anyway.

I heard a radio interview this morning with a woman suggesting people who might be suicidal should never be prosecuted (fortunately, Ken McDonald ?? Formerly of the DPP) was there to give a more sensible view.

Because let’s consider the consequences of not prosecuting people with mental health issues, or those considering suicide. We would effectively be abandoning criminal justice. No court case, no punishment and no redress for victims.

It is of course right that mental health is taken into consideration before sentencing, which is why judges frequently ask for pre-sentencing reports, but it cannot literally become a get out of jail free card.

I’m afraid I agree with PP, blaming the CPS deflects from the tabloids and CF’s own management company.

I heard a radio interview this morning with a woman suggesting people who might be suicidal should never be prosecuted (fortunately, Ken McDonald ?? Formerly of the DPP) was there to give a more sensible view.

Ian Huntley attempted suicide whilst awaiting trial for the murder of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.

"I’m afraid I agree with PP, blaming the CPS deflects from the tabloids and CF’s own management company."

Actually, what all of this does is allow the public, the people who fuel all this buy watching the shows, buying the papers, clicking on the websites, sharing the memes, to blame someone else. All those people were just doing their jobs, successfully, in a market were "we" created demand,

I think Caroline played a really big personality on screen, confident, vivacious, sassy, so to find out the reality was a very vulnerable woman struggling with mental illness is difficult to under stand, to tie the public persona and the private reality.

People are looking for someone to blame. In every other walk of life, when you hear that someone with severe depression takes their own life, you attribute it to the illness, wonder what more could be done for them, and understand it to a certain degree,

When someone we only saw as bubbly, happy, confident does it, it is difficult to grasp, as it's not the persona we saw. So people are looking for a reason, for someone to blame. It must be the media, it must be the cps, it must be something, someone is to blame.

In reality it's never one factor, but mental illness will have played a signifant part. The issue is that is not the Caroline anyone saw in the media, so it's hard to understand the reality.

I think the tabloid press is pushing the CPS angle in collusion with a more sinister agenda the tories have for undermining the judiciary and consolidating their power post Brexit.

I believe people commit suicide because they are mentally ill, not in response to events. I feel very sorry that Caroline Flack was in that place

I agree.

If CF wasn't petite and pretty people would be responding on a very different manner to her actions imo.

Again, could we pull back from discussing CF herself and look at OP’s broader points?

CPS prosecuting without support of the victim, and the differing outcomes between male and female abusers?

There’s the narrative of the brutal man hitting the poor defenceless woman. There’s the “she provoked him” narrative (often seen as “look what you made me do.”) There’s also the added “unnatural” perception of a woman who hits a man, and societal assumptions about “the sort of man who lets a woman hit him”. There’s an awful lot of patriarchal bullshit wound up in our perceptions of DV.

With the deaths of women and girls at a high from DV, the CPS is under pressure to do more. Obviously a case involving someone who features in the tabloids puts them under even more scrutiny, and rampant speculation in the gutter press.

What do we expect from the CPS in these circumstances?

As with previous PP, I entirely agree the focus on whether the CPS should have brought a case exists solely to distract attention away from the papers, the sidebars of shame, a gawping prurient population and a management that exploited CF as an income-generator.

“Look at those meanies! It was them, not us!”

@bobbybluecat - spot on!

Imagine the media coverage if the CPS took the decision not to prosecute a female celebrity for an alleged domestic violence incident. What a field day the men’s rights activists would have.

Everyone on MN who has posted about CF should be made to read #bobbybluecat's post.