Caroline Flack and CPS criticism

[whatnow40]

Posting here as I haven't seen anyone else really question this. The CPS are being criticised for pursuing a prosecution, even though the alleged victim said he didn't support it and did not want to prosecute.

Am I wrong in thinking it's not up to the victim? And the CPS should be supported in pursuing a prosecution for domestic violence where there is enough evidence to not need a victims statement? Is there a policy on this? I just think that if this was alleged male on female violence, more questions would be asked about this aspect.

Yes she was scared of the consequences, and so she should be. Yes it's tragic she took her own life, rather than go through a trial that would allow her to defend herself, or reveal truths she wanted hidden. But shouldn't we remember someone for the entirety of their actions?

I don't actually see this as a feminist issue. Could happen to anyone, male or female. Op has missed all the CF threads that have been deleted. Loads of CPS posts on them, but then deleted.

I disagree with most. She may well have been guilty. We'll never know. And I too know about victims not wanting to press charges, because they love the person and don't want it.

But I have a different view. I have been involved in this area from a very unpleasant side. Most of you would disbelieve what I say, because you have naieve faith that teachers, police officers, social workers are honest and have the good of the victim or child as their focus.

But I've seen lies, documents altered, GP and Consultant letters removed from the case files, all sorts. You'd be horrified!!

I've helped 3 families : cases were the police took a view and ran with it, despite all objections, and then the case was finally closed. But damage was done.

CF's management claimed - Her boyfriend, LB said :
'he did not support it'.
and "disputed the CPS version of events".

Is that true? Is he just in denial? Trying to protect her, because he still loves her, and cant accept what she did?
Or is that the truth?

Because it wouldn't be the first time.
I've had 3 cases where the police were determinded to prosecute. Took a view and ran with it. And they ran with the view they had, until the case collapsed.

It does happen!!

Apparently the charge she was facing was about as low as it could have been on the scale of domestic violence.

She was charged with assault by beating because he was hit with lamp enough to draw blood. I'd say that's pretty serious.

I'm with you OP, I think the CPS have a duty to prosecute where it meets their criteria, and it's up to a judge, jury and court to decide whether the accused is guilty or not.

@Oblomov20 her boyfriend made the 3 minute 999 call saying she was going to kill him. They have the bodycam footage from the officers responding as evidence.

I hope it doesn't become all about the CPS, but I'm also not convinced by the criticism of the media. They have a job to do and that's to print what people buy. They can't do the other more important journalism if they're not getting their papers bought. If people didn't buy/click, the stories wouldn't be published.

The case was not to be held in a court with a jury who could be influenced by reporting prior to the trial and so the press and social media were not restrained.

Rainy, I know. And maybe he did think that. Maybe he did say that. But maybe with hindsight, he thinks he over-reacted. or maybe its all as it sounds!!

I've over-reacted before. I admit. I honestly thought ds1 was going to die when he was having a febrile convulsion and told the ambulance woman she wasn't taking it seriously enough. How embarrassing!!

Although ds1 had stopped breathing and was a tiny bit blue, so no wonder I was frightened!!

I agree @ElderAve, she allegedly committed a crime and so media were duty bound to report it.
It has more public interest than usual because it is less usual for a female to commit DV.

Saying that, I read one of those secret barrister type blogs saying the charges would definitely had been dropped if she were not famous.

I am genuinly appalled that CPS and Police are being remotely blamed here.

Look at the statistics of how many times DV victims call Police and refuse to make a statement before they actually agree to support a prosecution. Just because he changed his mind and wouldn't support the prosecution, doesn't mean that nothing happened.

For Police and CPS to pursue a 'victimless prosecution', they have to have substantial evidence from other areas (eyewitness statements from passers-by / neighbours who saw or heard shouting/physical violence/threats, documented injuries, bodycam footage, 999 call from victim (what they said) and what could be heard from the suspect in the background, initial comments from both parties at the initial scene, comments and behaviour of suspect in custody (in this case she was aggressive and was taken to the floor in custody)photographs of damage/injuries at the scene, statement that victim initially provided (often they will give an official statement and then withdraw at a later date), answers they gave to DASH book questions, previous incidents reported incidents between the couple etc etc). They wouldn't pursue it if they had nothing at all to help secure a conviction or if they believed that by not pursuing it, the victim wouldn't placed in future danger.

The decision to bring in Victimless Prosecutions was not done lightly and is one of the best things to happen to DV crimes in the history of Policing.
Do you know what it used to be like for Officers to spend entire shifts with victims, working hours past their end of shift because they knew that the victim was in serious danger and you were desperate to help them? Spending hours and hours gaining their trust and getting statements out of them? Going home happy that the victim was going to be safe going forwards, only to go back in to work the following day to find out the victim had withdrawn their statement, the suspect had been released and they were both back at home together (often with children present)? It was soul destroying.
To then be called back time and time again for years afterwards with nothing changing and being powerless to help was a waste of everybody's time.
And then in the cases where the victim was eventually murdered or killed themselves or they left of their own free will, for the Police to then be blasted by the victim and/or their families because "Police should have done more to protect them"? WE TRIED!!

Now, Police know that even if the victim can't see it yet, they can do the best for the victim.

I made the mistake of looking at her on/off boyfriends Instagram this morning. It is disgusting. The majority of comments (mainly from women) are "You killed her", "You did this", "You were messaging other girls, what did you expect her to do?", "She must have been defending herself".
The victim blaming is disgusting.

The comments on Mumsnet have been no better.
"There are two sides to every story"
"We all make mistakes"
"She was in a bad place"
"He pushed her in to it"
"He was messaging other girls!"
"There is no smoke wihout fire"

If I even wrote ONE of those comments on the multitude of daily posts on Mumsnet from women whose husbands have hit them, I would be banned for life!
Why just because it is a male that has been abused are these comments allowed?
Male hits a woman it is "LTB", "Call the Police", "There is never any reason to raise a hand to someone" yet when a woman hits a man, it's "She must have been defending herself", "He pushed her in to it", "She needed help, not Police".

This wasn't a one off.
This was a 30 odd year old (celebrity) woman who groomed a 16 year old (non-celebrity) boy and dated him when he was 17.
She was known to abuse drugs and alcohol.
She has previous for being physically violent with ex-partners.

It is relatively common for DV suspects to threaten suicide or commit suicide after an assault.
It is used as a final "Fuck you" and a way of controlling the victim for the rest of their life.
For the victim to never get 'closure' or any answers. And to make the victim feel guilt and mess with their heads forevermore.
I'm not saying this is 100% the case here. But it IS common with abusers.

What scares me the most is the negative impact this is going to have on DV victims coming forwards. ESPECIALLY male victims.
So many phone the Police knowing that they have no intention of co-operating with Police. But they know that the new laws mean that the suspect could still be dealt with without the victim feeling they are to 'blame' because they didn't ask for the prosecution.
If they don't feel like they can do that anymore, lives are going to be ruined.

The last year or so has seen so really positive press surrounding males coming forward and talking about being DV victims.
The shit that this victim has got on social media and in the press is going to set this back years.

Victimless Prosecutions should not be stopped.
It is the victims that need protecting more, not the abusers.

I just can't get over the staggering difference in response to her situation because she was female - beautiful and popular.
The comments I've read defending her actions "she just lost her temper" "her boyfriend pushed her to it" "he overreacted" etc.

There's no such thing as a victim choosing whether or not to "press charges" in a criminal prosecution in the UK. The ultimate decision is with the CPS as to whether the charges are strong enough to stand up at court. This is regardless of whether the victim supports a prosecution or not (but it will obviously have an impact).

The CPS did not put on a "show trial" - the evidence against her was strong enough to take her to trial and the media went bananas.

There is a protocol of positive arrest and investigation in any domestic violence incident. Given the fact that 2 women a week die (unfortunately I don't know the stats for men) at the hands of a current or ex partner, this protocol is invaluable.

Regardless, it's very sad that she thought this was the only option left to her.

@Forrandomposts I know one case affecting a close family member where the police took the view of the first person they spoke to. When they walked into the home of my relative, the police officers actually said to my relative 'we're not interested in anything you have to say'. They'd just decided to believe the word of one person. They weren't willing to listen to any witnesses who came forward to defend my relative. I helped my relative speak to the police and write a letter of complaint to no avail. I was really quite shocked as I would have thought the police were supposed to be impartial and just gather evidence.

The hypocitic comments surrounding this quite frankly stinks.

Are all the places offering "if yoiu have been affected by any of the issues - " I wonder if they offer dv help.

Fudge, delay and "look a squirrel over there"

I think this has broader importance. A public body is being criticised for doing its job and there’s little critical thinking by any tabloids about it.

Agree, and if that lack of critical thinking is wider then it is a very dangerous thing.
There ARE undoubtedly questions to be asked about the CPS process, but I think they're less about pursuing prosecutions and more about the structure of and pressures on the legal system: we need less delay in cases being brought to court and more support for victims and for defendants.

Or maybe she was just a completely abusive person. Thought he was cheating and simply hit him with a lamp.
We'll probably never quite find out the truth.

There is a very good series of tweets from the secret barrister on this
twitter.com/barristersecret/status/1228982815024467969?s=21

I agree it's appalling that the police/CPS are being blamed. The CPS won't prosecute anything unless there is compelling evidence that makes a conviction possible. They often drop cases due to lack of evidence, often to the huge distress of the people involved, so there was clearly sufficient evidence in this case to secure a conviction and CF's celebrity should not have come into it.

I'm also concerned by the tone of reporting in this case. If LB has been the one accused of assaulting CF, rather than the other way around, I don't think for a single moment that he would be seen as the victim or described as 'vulnerable' or that there would be cries of 'show trial' around a criminal prosecution or calls for the case to be dropped against him. Women aren't often the perpetrators of DV, and many more women are harmed by their male partners than men harmed by women, but I'm concerned by this overly emotional, knee-jerk reporting. The gutter press in this country has a lot to answer for - both in its sensationalist reporting and it's selective support for the law, depending on who it sees as the perpetrator and who the victim.

Where were the tabloids and her management team before she died? If CPS acted so wrongly, if they are so sure their actions were an abuse of power and miscarriage of justice where are the statements,questioning and support of her before all this?

Oh yeah there's none, they just found a useful scapegoat. The cynic in me also believes that certain people are using her suicide as a way to fight against DV laws and procedures,for their own means.

Excellent post Bobby I can't disagree with any of that.

You just never that level of consideration when a man is violent to a woman. Hes 100% abuser, no ifs no buts. In this case every possible excuse is given as a possible explanation.
Completely agree with @BobbyBlueCat
Just wonder if anyone dares say it or print it irl

CPS dont pursue rape cases - BAAAAD CPS

CPS pursue "Fimis" person for dv - BAAAAD CPS.

no wonder civil servants are stressed to blazes.

"The CPS won't prosecute anything unless there is compelling evidence that makes a conviction possible."

I completely disagree with this. In fact I know it is factually incorrect. I've seen cases put together by police. Finally dismissed by CPS. And dropped. Others where CPS continued when the evidence was questionable/weak.

GraduateDilemma - that was a powerful insight into your experience.

I know people who've walked out of their 'in-laws' family gatherings when they've been speaking in support of a relative /dinner guest who had been 'wrongly' imprisoned for multiple DV/SA charges (and decrying the victims).

Prosecution of DV is complex and unpredictable for so many of the reasons discussed by PPs. The thread running through it is the woeful underfunding of provision for people who need to escape DV. As well as the longer-term funding for relationship education so that so many people have a chance to spot abuse and coercion.

CPS should absolutely be supported in bringing charges if they feel the crime warrants it and they have the evidence , even without the victims support.

Whatever happened between her and the boyfriend the CPS obviously felt it was serious and that punishment via the justice system needed to be given.

Yes it’s sad she took her life but why should the CPS be blamed for trying to bring justice for a crime she committed....

IF a woman does some bad shit, she should be made to answer for that. The fact she had a vagina does not mean her crime was ok.

This whole thing has shown a disgusting side to some, I have looked at a fair few comments online and on here and mostly they are from women and they seem to think it’s ok what she done to her partner because “she just lost her temper” “needed help, not police” “ two sides to every story” it is shameful to read.

So in short if your a woman and your DH hit you with a lamp, it’s all we believe you. A woman would never lie would she?
If your a man that gets whacked with a lamp, well too sides to every story 🙄