Doesn't self-ID only benefit non-genuine cases?

[UpfieldHatesWomen]

I'm trying to figure out if there are actually any benefits to self-ID at all for people with gender dysphoria. The arguments for self-ID are that it costs money, and it's 'humiliating' to have to present your case to a panel of experts. First of all, a GRC only costs £140. Doesn't seem like a staggering amount of money, if you follow the narrative that people will kill themselves in their masses without it. Are there other costs that I'm missing here? The NHS covers hormones and medical procedures in the UK. I also fail to see what's humiliating about a psychological/medical assessment, to see if you actually have gender dysphoria or whether you have a sissification/autogynephelia fetish. Unless, of course, you're never going to get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, because you don't have it and simply get off on invading women's privacy/have a fetish etc. Self-ID benefits those who want to keep their penis - but if you have gender dysphoria, why would you want to keep your penis? TV propaganda such as the ITV series 'Butterfly' would have us believe that those with gender dysphoria hate their genitals so much they'll try to cut them off with pieces of broken glass. It seems like self-ID only benefits fetishists and misogynists, so why are politicians never challenged on how exactly self-ID is supposed to benefit transgender people, why are they so insistent on self-ID as the only possible route to trans rights? Are they just woefully ignorant about autogynephelia/transvestism/sissification etc? These fetishes are as old as the hills, why is everyone pretending they suddenly don't exist? Or for that matter, pretending that predatory men don't exist? Female politicians are subjected to the very worst kinds of misogyny on social media, so how can they be so incredibly naive about how misogynistic men and opportunists will use self-ID as a vendetta against women? It doesn't seem that self-ID actually help genuine cases, only those who would normally be refused a GRC because they have shown they're insincere/have other mental health problems/trolling etc.

Well that's the normal structure of the NHS. Your GP refers when appropriate. I'm glad you're glad we have an NHS.

Yes there are many treatments for endometriosis. Not all of them work. Especially in black women apparently. But then I'm going on research and not just opinions so do ignore me.

standpointmag.co.uk/issues/february-2020/speaking-up-for-female-eunuchs/

“I regret it all,” says a slight 23-year-old in a lumberjack shirt, hunched behind a microphone. She is one of eight young detransitioners from several European countries here in Manchester. All are lesbian. They, and many in the audience, see the doctors and clinicians who supported their transitions as the post-modernist version of those who sought to turn gay people straight—only now they are seeking to fix bodies rather than sexual desires. “Transition has been presented as so progressive, but the only thing I see is it reinforcing gender stereotypes,” says one.

“If there is a ‘gay conversion therapy’ of our times, it’s this,” says Charlie Evans, the network’s founder, who identified as trans for a decade before switching back last year, aged 28. Of the 300 or so detransitioners who responded to her social-media call some months ago, most were young and female. That chimes with the changing caseload at paediatric gender clinics around the world, which used to see mostly prepubescent boys but now mostly see teenage girls.

These young women have been indelibly marked by their quest for manhood. Five took cross-sex hormones: their voices are deep and some have receding hairlines. Five had their breasts removed, and two their ovaries and wombs as well. Those who underwent hormone treatment will not know whether it harmed their fertility until they try to have children. Those without reproductive organs know they never will.

The eloquence of a 23-year-old German who goes by “Satan Herself” (@ sathananas on Twitter) prompts tears among many. She talks about the difficulty of living as a young lesbian without cultural role models or social networks, in a world that values women only insofar as men find them attractive. Meeting other detransitioners was a revelation, she says. “Where have these women been all my life? . . . It was just so normal to be a lesbian and a masculine woman and I’ve never felt that, ever.”

Between 14 and 16 she was repeatedly hospitalised with anorexia.She started breast-binding at 18, seeing a gender therapist at 19, taking testosterone a month after her 20th birthday, and had a mastectomy, hysterectomy, and oophorectomy (removal of ovaries). “I’m really glad my parents forced me into treatment for my eating disorder and didn’t let me die,” she says. “I wish someone had been there to tell me not to get castrated at 21.”

Hmm.

Wondering why you are here, posting on the Mumsnet feminist board if you aren’t interested in the opinions of women?

Are the women of Mumsnet feminism boards all women? You see that research I'm on about? It surveyed BAME women with endometriosis! I got all of those women's opinions at once. Thousands of them! Plus I got stats too because it was a review. It's like magic!

Did you see the one about hysterectomy and dementia?

That's why i am not against proportionate trans exclusion as long there is a safe service in the area that they can use.

If trans domestic violence is such a huge issue, they best crack on and get them sorted then, eh?
Rather than stealing the services that women built for women.

Stonewall have lots of dosh. I think they should use some for projects that will materially improve the lives of LGBT people, such as homeless shelters and domestic violence services (although obvs female LBTs should be entitled to services for women, but transmen might prefer not to).

I think it is rubbish to think that a qualified therapist will only explore some degree of transitioning to deal with issues around gender dysphoria. I think they will work with the patient and take each case individually.

Are you not aware of this document?
www.psychotherapy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/UKCP-Memorandum-of-Understanding-on-Conversion-Therapy-in-the-UK.pdf

For the purposes of this document ’conversion therapy’ is an umbrella term for a therapeutic approach, or any model or individual viewpoint that demonstrates an assumption that any sexual orientation or gender identity is inherently preferable to any other, and which attempts to bring about a change of sexual orientation or gender identity, or seeks to supress an individual’s expression of sexual orientation or gender identity on that basis

Suggesting to a distressed person who believes that their distress is due to their self-diagnosis of gender dysphoria that their distress may actually be due to other factors is now considered to be 'conversion therapy' and outlawed in the UK.

It’s mad that a few old biddies like us know more about the state of trans healthcare than a GP who comes on Mumsnet to tell us all off.

From the document you quoted:

"Nor is it intended to stop psychological and
medical professionals who work with trans and
gender questioning clients from performing
a clinical assessment of suitability prior to
medical intervention.
For people who are unhappy about their sexual
orientation or their transgender status, there
may be grounds for exploring therapeutic
options to help them live more comfortably
with it, reduce their distress and reach a
greater degree of self-acceptance. Some
people may benefit from the challenge of
psychotherapy and counselling to help them
manage dysphoria and to clarify their sense of
themselves. Clients make healthy choices when
they understand themselves better."

I think it is rubbish to think that a qualified therapist will only explore some degree of transitioning to deal with issues around gender dysphoria. I think they will work with the patient and take each case individually.

You are living under a rock (Or pretending to).
BPS guidelines for psychologists working with transgender individuals:

www.bps.org.uk/sites/www.bps.org.uk/files/Policy/Policy%20-%20Files/Guidelines%20for%20psychologists%20working%20with%20gender%2C%20sexuality%20and%20relationship%20diversity.pdf

Psychologists should integrate an affirmative stance to their models of practice when working with GSRD clients.

Also listen to Kirsty Entwistle and the whistleblowers from the Tavistock.

I think the above document covers the actual guidance given in this respect.

In fact, your document says the same thing in different words and then refers to the document. Please read things before you share this false information. It reminds me of autism and MMR all over again.

So why are the clinical psychologists involved with gender identity telling us they are NOT allowed to explore anything except gender identity?

medium.com/@kirstyentwistle/an-open-letter-to-dr-polly-carmichael-from-a-former-gids-clinician-53c541276b8d

Because they cant read properly and have allowed their personal opinions sway their professional acumen?

Because they cant read properly
Says the person who has not actually read that article by Kirsty Entwistle?

I've read everything provided. Her fears don't align with the guidance so I've dismissed them. It would be like me writing an article protesting the new law which will allow me to euthanise old people on the recommendation of their NoK. It doesn't exist. What does exist is some recent guidance that says we should listen more to the loved ones of people receiving palliative care about what and how to disclose to the patient.

gee
Normal structure of NHS is GP as gatekeeper role (in relation to secondary care) Not to refer everyone they see because they think there is something wrong with them. As I’m sure you are aware
Also for someone who claims to listen to what your patients are telling you, you don’t seem to do much listening here. There are loads of sources of information out there describing problems with the GIDS service, stories of detransitioners. Including the great article written by someone who works at Tavistock. Don’t you think if you are referring someone to a specific clinic you need to be aware of the possible (major) clinical concerns about that service? And be discussing this with them before referral?

I didn't say I refer everyone I see, Is said I refer most people who ask for referral.

I'm sorry but are there any trans patients here in this thread? Who is it I should be listening to here about all people with gender dysphoria?

I’ve read everything provided. Her fears don't align with the guidance so I've dismissed them
Didn’t you say earlier on that sometimes you tell your friends to make up symptoms such as nocturnal pain so they get referred as you appreciated that sometimes the guidelines are wrong?

There are plenty of women - you were talking about referring 21 year olds for hysterectomies.
There are testimonies from people who work at Tavistock highlighting their concerns about the service.
There are descriptions of detransitioners who have had mutilating surgery and then regretted it all.
Will you listen to any of there sources??

We don't allow other people to self-diagnose themselves with other conditions. When you look at it like that, it makes no sense at all.

If it was just about Gender, then I wouldn't have so much of a problem. But when it gets confused with Sex, then that is something else entirely.

When it involves getting drugs and operations, then it doesn't seem unreasonable that you would be subject to a test to check if your need is genuine. After all, you wouldn't arrange to deliver a baby unless you'd checked to see if the patient was actually pregnant.

I've never mentioned a 21 year old.

I spoke generally about referral.

I think any guideline that encourages an open mind to correct treatment route, especially to do with matters of the mind, is probably a good one.

I think you're misunderstanding the guidance when it comes to using things like surgery to transition. The assessment process for surgery will still entail the normal pillars of consent. Just because my self identity as trans woman would be valid, it wouldn't mean a surgeon will just agree to give me bottom surgery. The surgeon could totally respect my trans identity and still feel I am not competent to make the decision due to other factors that compromise my ability to consent.

It is likely that there will always be a counselling process before permanent changes performed by medical practitioners because of the rules around their status as clinicians.

Oh and before you start, I am not a trans woman, I was using myself as an example of someone transitioning.

Will you listen to any of there sources??

Not until there are a thousand peer reviewed studies and the gender medicine industry collapses because no one will insure the doctors, probably.

A transman is currently engaged in a one-person protest outside St Peter’s Andrology Clinic (the only UK provider of phalloplasty, both NHS and private).

Can you imagine feeling so desperate for someone to listen and assist you that you camp outside for months on end, through the winter?

I realise all surgeries come with risk, but this person had a previously healthy body and due to medical intervention, now hasn’t.

I don’t see Stonewall or TELI offering assistance, or even talking about this. According to transactivists, trans medicine is all rainbows and mermaids and authentic selves. The only problems are ‘gatekeeping’ and waiting times.

It’s such a load of bollocks.

And no. I don’t give two shits if this is just ‘anecdotal’. Dismiss it if you like, but it won’t be me struggling with my conscious (or medical license) in years to come.