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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

It's 2020 folks. 2020!

136 replies

aliasundercover · 05/02/2020 09:47

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/04/i-am-not-a-slapper-labour-mp-tracy-brabin-defends-her-commons-attire

The pic in the story is very disappointing. I thought she was going to be wearing a basque or something

OP posts:
BuzzShitbagBobbly · 05/02/2020 11:43

Woman on the radio rang in to say that poor men won't know what to do!

Saying things like what if they accidentally put an arm round her waist to guide her out; or touch her bare flesh - and then get accused of sexual harassment.

I was brushing my teeth at the time and was going to phone in but by the time I'd finished they'd changed topic. I was livid!

(Having seen the pics now, it does look very weird, like it's torn or something. Apparently she says the camera angle/her leaning in distorts it. I guess she won't wear it again though)

Rainbunny · 05/02/2020 11:43

The sexist comments were inexcusable but I thought her dress was utterly unprofessional. I work with many professional women who look very attractive, sexy even but in a classy, professional manner.

Like it or not, people view our professionalism and work ethic partially on our appearance at the office - it's just human nature. Tracy Brabin is not impressing me at all so far. I hope she proves me wrong in future, I would like to see her succeed and it doesn't mean she'll lose her authenticity to dress in a way that shows she respects her role.

Dervel · 05/02/2020 11:44

I don’t know nor particularly care what she was wearing. Imagine if it was against HoC rules she wouldn’t be admitted.

My worry is whilst we are all faffing over discussing her outfit we didn’t listen to what she was saying? I mean it’s our Parliament important things do get discussed there.

FrogsFrogs · 05/02/2020 11:46

So penguin when my 10yo DD goes out in leggings and a skirt, and gets lustful glances from men, your view is that she is

A. Aiming for this reaction from men and
B. Enjoys it

Can't you see how this attitude is a massive problem for girls?

Men behave inappropriately to girls starting when their bodies develop and irrespective of what they are wearing.

Putting this on the girls and their clothes is a real problem. The idea that young girls can be sexually knowing and looking to get adult men feeling lustful is a path that starts with people turning a blind eye to men ogling children and ends with things like Rotherham.

MrsSnippyPants · 05/02/2020 11:49

I was watching Parliament TV when she stood up to speak. I did think she looked unprofessional and it did distract me from what she was saying. I thought she had suffered some sort of wardrobe disaster and was trying to figure out what had gone wrong.

Yes, the sexist comments are appalling, and I make no excuse for them.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 05/02/2020 11:51

And penguin is right - when we were shortening our skirts at school, we definitely were doing it to attract the attention of boys. Not random old men driving cars, but at that age girls want to attract boys and boys want to attract girls.

WanderingMilly · 05/02/2020 11:53

I think the outfit is unprofessional and not suitable for parliament. Doesn't matter who she is or whether she's male/female or whatever, it is not suitable for the House of Commons. She wants to be taken seriously as a professional in a leadership position? Then she (or any male for that matter) should dress appropriately.

That said, the nasty comments are also inappropriate too. To say someone is not dressed correctly is very different from calling them all sorts of names and making sexualised comments.
In my opinion, they should all be a bit more mature about it. Very sad state of affairs....

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 05/02/2020 11:55

we definitely were doing it to attract the attention of boys. Not random old men driving cars

Of course we did it to attract boys. It wasn't because our legs were feeling hot!

We didn't stop to think about the old men in cars.

fuckitywhy · 05/02/2020 11:58

I know that logically that clothes shouldn't matter, and that people should be able to do whatever they want - but realistically they do. There are intricate social codes of conduct at play in what you wear and where you wear it.

I can't think why you'd wear something like this unless you were very naive or very attention-seeking. She must have known it would get some kind of fuss and that bothers me more than anything. Whatever she was actually saying has been negated by a silly outfit choice.

FrogsFrogs · 05/02/2020 11:59

I did it because it was what we all did.

I was in no way looking to attract 'lustful glances' from men, in fact I hated being ogled. I also hated being shouted at, followed etc. And all this was down to my skirt length?

Interesting.

BoreOfWhabylon · 05/02/2020 11:59

My worry is whilst we are all faffing over discussing her outfit we didn’t listen to what she was saying? I mean it’s our Parliament important things do get discussed there.

And that's why she shouldn't have worn such an inappropriate outfit. She must have known that it would detract from whatever point she was making. Appalling lack of judgement.

FrogsFrogs · 05/02/2020 12:01

The idea that all schoolgirls are dressing to be sexually appealing rather than because it's the fashion, and having this repeated by lots of women, is weird tbh.

Mossyrock · 05/02/2020 12:05

I think this is a feminist issue in that it appears she thinks she needs to show flesh. In every setting. She doesn’t; none of us do.

I agree with this.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 05/02/2020 12:09

The idea that all schoolgirls are dressing to be sexually appealing rather than because it's the fashion, and having this repeated by lots of women, is weird tbh.

I don't think anybody said all. You clearly didn't.
But a lot of us did. And clearly still do.
Do people forget what they were like at that age?

AFistfulofDolores1 · 05/02/2020 12:13

Totally inappropriate comments. And an inappropriate outfit for the occasion.

IfNot · 05/02/2020 12:18

She is shadow culture sec. not women and equalities.
Anyway. Yeah, the outfit was nice, I thought, but not appropriate for work. Still the fucking disgusting comments are way over the top.
Personally I dressed like a Victorian widow for school, in the longest skirts I could find Grin but yes of course teenage girls want to look attractive to boys, on the whole, and they just don't think about the pervy old men.

Fanciedachange1 · 05/02/2020 12:18

Personally I don’t see anything wrong with what she is wearing.

What I do have issues with is some of the doctors/junior doctors at work who often wear tight bodycon dresses with heels. They are seen tottering around the wards and I can’t imagine them running down the corridor and performing cpr on someone collapsed on the floor!

FrogsFrogs · 05/02/2020 12:20

Well yes the posters saying that of course schoolgirls roll their skirts up to get sexual attention haven't said some schoolgirls.

It's a bit grim.

My 10yo gets leered at. She sometimes wears a skirt above the knee. With leggings. Idea that she's looking for it is grim.

FrogsFrogs · 05/02/2020 12:21

The framing of female children as sexually knowing, deliberately tempting men causes huge problems for girls, I'm surprised that is being pushed.

Short skirt= asking for it is a thing I thought was long gone.

FrogsFrogs · 05/02/2020 12:24

I wear an above the knee skirt for work I'm not seeking to get lustful glances.

I wear it because it 'looks nice' in the context of fashion and society.

Man was staring at me on the tube last night. I don't like it now and I didn't like it when a was a kid.

I also think that men will be iffy to girls irrespective of what they wear. Blaming the girls skirts for the bad behaviour of men is as old as the hills but seemingly going nowhere.

Annasgirl · 05/02/2020 12:26

Well apparently many women on this board (looking at you justhadathought and myimangunarycat..) seem to not be aware we are in 2020 not 1950.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 05/02/2020 12:30

Frogs, my experience, which is admittedly 30 years ago, was that the rolling up of skirts started at about 14/15, not 10. And yes we were doing it for male attention. I am certainly not suggesting 10 year olds would have the same mind set (and am quite frankly Hmm Confused that you would infer otherwise), I was just responding to your outright denial that a desire to attract the male gaze might sometimes be behind a decision to bare more of one's body.

SpicyTomatos · 05/02/2020 12:34

I subscribe to the look pretty or look professional view.

Criticising a women who chooses professional for not being pretty enough is sexist. I don't think that is the case here.

Criticising a women who chooses pretty for not being professional is not something I would do, but I can understand it happened.

Not sure many will agree though.

FrogsFrogs · 05/02/2020 12:35

I was at school 30 years ago as well and skirts were rolled all through secondary so from 11.

When shorter skirts are in fashion many girls wear them including later primary school.

The idea that these clothing choices must be driven by a desire to attract sexual attention is worrying.

Many girls are just following fashion and actively hate/ feel uncomfortable at getting sexual attention. Which they get irrespective of the length of skirt tbh it starts as soon as their bodies start to develop.

Idea that girls are sexually knowing and actively looking to incite lust in males is just off the mark and causes a lot of victim blaming.

slipperywhensparticus · 05/02/2020 12:35

That's a dreadful picture it does look a bit like her zip had come undone and she had carried on with her job regardless

It looks fine in other shots so I can't see the issue with it

And actually WTF gives anyone any rights ever to say someone looks like they have been banged over a wheelie bin

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