It's 2020 folks. 2020!

[aliasundercover]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/04/i-am-not-a-slapper-labour-mp-tracy-brabin-defends-her-commons-attire

The pic in the story is very disappointing. I thought she was going to be wearing a basque or something

That is just naive......if you wear clothing which is deemed, in your culture, to be sexy...then that is the response you are going to receive.

And as women we should be strongly challenging those misogynistic, sexist people not meekly accepting it

'Clothing is about self expression, but also about social expectation and messaging. That is the big problem for me in the way that women are brought up to present themselves as primarily, sex objects - looking to attract admiring or lustful glances. women valuing themselves largely as being seen as sexually alluring or attractive.'

Fucking hell just no. Most women girls are dressing according to fashion and what they are told looks 'nice'.

Schoolgirls who roll their skirts up aren't aiming to get 'lustful glances' from adult men, FFS.

I don't want 'lustful glances' as I'm going about my daily business either FFS men ogling women and girls who are just out and about is something women and girls have been saying forever makes them uncomfortable.

Bloody hell.

I think you need to learn to hold men to a higher standard, Just.

Justhad, FYI, the idea that if women go to bars they should expect to be sexually harassed is horrible.

No I don't want men making obscene comments etc when I'm out with my friends. They always did though. You seem to take the view that this is just something men are always going to do and women should accept. No thanks.

That is just naive......if you wear clothing which is deemed, in your culture, by sexist people to be sexy...then that is the response you are going to receive.*
*
Corrected that for you.

Myimaginary you honestly look at that picture of a woman speaking in the house of commons and think, she literally looks as if she just got fucked in an alleyway.

I'm glad I don't have thought processes like that tbh.

I think oh there's a woman in the house of commons showing rather more shoulder than is generally appropriate for work.

And that's it.

I don't start thinking anything about her being fucked at all. That's pretty weird to me.

Would the male equivalent be a man with a shirt underdone halfway, revealing a taut, hairy chest?

Totally inappropriate for working in the HoC. But, he'd be described using more 'sexy' sounding words I'm sure.

One of my male colleagues got a bollocking for daring to wear smart knee length tailored shorts to work during a particularly hot and sticky summer. All around him were female colleagues wearing spaghetti tops, shorts, mini skirts, thin dresses and open toe sandals without drawing any comment.

He raised it with HR and the whole appropriate wear at work issue was examined. It had no basis in practicality or equality and was abandoned in favour of a case by case approach.

She made a poor choice. She got slated. Comments were made describing what she looked like. Big deal.

Maybe

And the commentary wouldn't be, he looks like a slut who just got fucked in an alleyway etc!

If I had a thought about the outfit it would have been, oh, she's already changed into her going out for dinner after work outfit. Not alleyway shagging. That's a very odd place for people's minds to go.

Women judging other women for their clothing choices...Now, that's really not a good look

I don't care what it looks like , I'm saying what I believe to be true. It is naive to assume that people don't judge each other on first appearances; they most often do.....which is why people make such an effort with clothing and presentation. It sends out signals and messages...no matter how un PC they might look or sound to you.

If we lived in a culture in which public nudity was the norm then it would be less of an issue...but we don't.......And the fact is that women are still judged, primarily, on how attractive or sexy they are.

I'm older now...and was always considered attractive when young.....after about 40, I noticed that i got a lot less attention or glances from men...it was quite obvious to me......so rather than dwell on that and try to recapture lost youthful/sexual appeal...I ploughed on with developing myself as a person...and as a woman not dependent on being considered as attractive according to our culture's sexualised norms.

Men wear shorts to work all the time where I work and I'm fairly sure no one thinks they are sluts etc

Many schoolgirls absolutely are aiming to get lustful glances by rolling their skirts up! That was exactly what we were all after in the 80s when we did it, and we were hardly the first or the last generation to do so.

We certainly weren't rolling them up for the warmth or the comfort factor were we

Most of us graduated through that stage of dressing for the male gaze and came out the other end, but to deny that it was a specific phase is just bonkers.

And yes this was an utterly unprofessional outfit.

* That is just naive......if you wear clothing which is deemed, in your culture, to be sexy...then that is the response you are going to receive.

This is about MEN, not women.

I was in a shop today and the young female advisor was dressed in a buttoned up polo shirt and trousers and the man in front of me still managed to perv on her.

how un PC that may look or sound to you

I once worked for a company where the big boss wore shorts every day.

(Even in the winter. Didn't think he was a slut, just that he must have rather cold resistant legs.)

I don’t think it is appropriate. I can’t understand how she thought it was, or why she would want to wear something that shows so much skin in that setting.

I think this is a feminist issue in that it appears she thinks she needs to show flesh. In every setting. She doesn’t; none of us do.

And as women we should be strongly challenging those misogynistic, sexist people not meekly accepting it confused

How about not conforming to sexist dress codes then? Codes which suggest that women should show as much flesh as permissible....wear bras which emphasise their cleavage in dresses etc? Teeter along in ridiculous high heels......

Fucking hell just no. Most women girls are dressing according to fashion and what they are told looks 'nice'

Exactly! But what they are wearing has been designed to emphasise their sexuality......and also in doing so you seen many people wearing clothing which does not suit them at all........

Schoolgirls who roll their skirts up aren't aiming to get 'lustful glances' from adult men, FFS

No, they don't aim for that...but they are unconscious of the way in which clothing, even for very young girls and children is increasingly sexualised. Have you seem much of the stuff that NEXT, for example, sells for girls as young as 5 years old these days?

This is about MEN, not women

It is about men & women. There are two sexes, and various sexual orientations. We are never going to get away from that.

She is local to me so this story was featured on my local paper's facebook page.
I was sad to see that 100%, yes all, of the comments saying her attire was unsuitable were from women

Those defending her were both women and men.
There were a few predictable "I would" comments from men.
Depressing that it's women policing women yet again.

A poster upthread has specifically said that schoolgirls are looking to get ogled by adult men and that they like it.

Certainly when I rolled my skirt up I did it because that's what we all did. I absolutely did not want to be followed, ogled, stared at etc by adult men.

This attitude that girls are sexually knowing and looking to elicit a sexual response from men, from when their bodies start developing (which is when the men start looking, irrespective of the age of the child), is a massive problem.

I think it's an inappropriate / unprofessional outfit for work.
When I was teaching, I would not have worn it to school.

My opinion would not be different if Jacob R-M was wearing it.