And now concerns raised in Ireland (with direct Tavi links) over adolescent care re gender dysphoria

[rogdmum]

Lots of concerns here, including

“ However, the issues raised and calls by the doctors for the service to be "terminated with immediate effect" were omitted from draft minutes of the meeting.”

And

“ In a statement, Dr Moran said they were concerned some patients they were seeing, who had been started on hormone treatment in Crumlin, did not appear to be suitable or ready for such treatment, and appeared to have mental health problems that had not been identified or addressed.

He said that for many children on hormones, there was no documented report or assessment by Tavistock, and where these were available, they were not sufficiently detailed and not a sound basis for a treatment recommendation. "There was usually no clear record of how or when the decision to commence treatment was made," he said.”

At some point all this will come to a head.

www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/doctors-in-row-with-hse-over-claims-childrens-transgender-care-is-unsafe-38920159.html

I’m glad to see there are clinicians willing to stand against this. It’s wrong on so many levels, we should not be experimenting on children.

So there was a big meeting of doctors and officials. Three doctors said the children's gender service was unsafe and must be stopped immediately. Their comments were not minuted because they were not representative of the views of some other doctors and a TRA org.

Fuck.

Of course it's wrong to block puberty in children and put them on a medical pathway for life. The children are being used to validate the adults, plus someone somewhere is rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of life long patients.

No child is born in the wrong body, not one. We need to stop affirming any child who thinks they are the opposite sex. Sorry kid, you're not, now let's see what we can do to help you come to terms with yourself. This, coupled with dismantling sexist stereotypes would actually do some bloody good.

If the gender identity ideologues were confident in their evidence, they would not have felt the need to omit every objection from the historical record.

It’s shocking that they just left out their objections. Absolutely bloody awful, what on earth were they thinking

I'm just shocked that all of this is happening under our noses and yet I was not aware until I got on this board that there was gender recognition legislation in Ireland that is the most liberal in the world - and now our politicians want to make it even more liberal by applying it to children (!!!!). What can we do as a group in real life to change this?

And the very last paragraph shows where this is heading:

The HSE said it was planning to develop an entirely Irish-based service "within the next year" and was working with leading clinicians and representatives of the transgender community to develop an agreed model of care.

So they’re removing it from those doctors who are trying to blow the whistle, and replacing it with a service designed by doctors who are already in this up to their eyebrows and transactivist lobbyists.

They’re taking it right to the limits.

I just read this article. It's inconceivable that three eminent doctors' views can be airbrushed from a meeting like this. Donal O'Shea has a lot of public good will in Ireland, he's very much a rock of sense type. I hope he and his colleagues can bring this to a head.

Yes MotherFork I can't get my head round it.

Three doctors raise a MASSIVE SAFEGUARDING ISSUE and HSE won't even record it because it's not representative of what other people, including a TRA lobby group, think. From the article it appears they still haven't recorded the safeguarding issues and are blanking all the doctors' communications.

This is fucked up.

MotherForkin you've said what I wanted to say.
I agree it's nuts.

I am waiting for a FG to knock at my door seeking a vote, because I intend to be very vocal about Regina Doherty's bonkers notions about extending gender id to children.

More and more trickles bursting through the dam and they're coming more frequently.

No group should ever be exempt from or have special arrangements to circumvent law, ethics, standards, process and safeguarding. It's a scandal that this has been allowed to harm children.

Donal O'Shea has a lot of public good will in Ireland, he's very much a rock of sense type. I hope he and his colleagues can bring this to a head

This.

I note there has been no mention of this story on RTE or in the Irish Times. They did however run this today:
www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/healthcare-for-trans-people-in-ireland-inadequate-european-report-1.4160700

from the article:
"Something of a standoff has ensued since then, with the HSE claiming their concerns were "not representative of the many clinicians who refer to the Tavistock". Transgender Equality Network Ireland (TENI) has also said it does not have any concerns about the service provided in Crumlin.

Some 291 Irish children have used the service since 2015." (continues)

Is much known about TENI? They seem to have pushed through the implementation of self-id & presumably are closely linked with TELI & other UK trans rights activist lobby groups?

Peter Dunne has/had links to TENI.

TELI was founded by Jess Bradley, Tara Hewitt & Michelle HUdson
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374926-What-influence-does-TELI-have-on-government-public-services-and-charities-policies-Co-founders-include-Jess-Bradley-Tara-Hewitt-and-Michelle-Hudson

I’m gobsmacked. Genuinely.

Is much known about TENI? They seem to have pushed through the implementation of self-id & presumably are closely linked with TELI & other UK trans rights activist lobby groups?

Yes I also thought that. Not sure if I read something somewhere or it's just my assumption.

TENI is linked to TELI? Fuck. I have seen training slides (couldn't make the actual presentation) delivered by TENI to a youth organisation and found it worrying. It seemed very mermaid flavoured. I'm a very lowly contributor to the organization so I've raised my concerns among some peers but I've no idea how to go about challenging it.

TENI may be involved with influencing/supporting youth organisations but its definitely more than that.

from their website:
"TENI is a non-profit organisation supporting the trans community in Ireland. TENI seeks to improve the situation and advance the rights and equality of trans people and their families. Our Vision is an Ireland where trans people are understood, accepted and respected, and can participate fully in all aspects of Irish society. Ireland remains a place where it can be difficult for trans people to lead safe, healthy and full lives. TENI is dedicated to ending transphobia, including stigma, discrimination and inequality and continues in the struggle for social, political and legal recognition of trans people in Ireland.

Our Organisation
TENI is a non-profit member-driven organisation, founded in 2006 and registered as a company limited by guarantee in February 2010. The governance is provided by a volunteer Board and operations are led by the Chief Executive and staff. Community engagement is an essential part of TENI’s identity and our mandate is based on a substantial membership, which elects the Board and is involved in long-term strategic planning."
www.teni.ie/about/

Reading through the bios of the board members it is notable how the younger members are much more likely to be tying themselves in knots with complicated descriptors of their many and varied "gender identities". It must be very tiring. A reasonable amount of American input. And a lot of men.

Another jaw-drop here. That's absolutely fucking outrageous.

from the TELI thread above, I posted last year:

"Peter Dunne is a key member of TELI currently hosting Johannah Olsen Kennedy who has been been gifted a Professorship from Bristol University:

"During her Benjamin Meaker (BM) Professorship, Professor Olson-Kennedy – drawing upon her extensive clinical research – will explore the medico-legal dimensions of withholding legal gender recognition from children in the United Kingdom and the United States. In partnership with Dr Peter Dunne (School of Law), and approaching the topic through a highly inter-disciplinary lens, Professor Olson-Kennedy will share insights on how policies of disaffirmation impact mental and physical health. In particular, Professor Olson-Kennedy and Dr Dunne will ask two core questions: (a) Would inclusion of individuals under the age of 18 years within gender recognition laws enhance the mental and physical health of transgender children? (b) What are the medico-legal risks of including individuals under the age of 18 years within gender recognition laws?

Combining their respective expertise, Professor Olson-Kennedy and Dr Dunne will consider whether UK and American law is consistent with the ‘best interests’ of transgender children, and they will develop a ‘model law’ for acknowledging transgender youth. The primary purpose of the research project is to draw upon Professor Olson-Kennedy’s field-leading medical research, and her expertise in gender-confirming interventions for young people, to enhance academic and policy understanding (particularly in the United Kingdom) on the possible consequences of extending legal gender recognition laws to include transgender people under the age of 18 years.

During her stay Professor Olson-Kennedy will be hosted by Dr Peter Robert Dunne (School of Law) " (continues)

www.bristol.ac.uk/ias/fellowships/meakers/johanna-olson-kennedy/

Olsen-Kennedy is closely aligned with Dr Webberley's, Gender GP, Mermaids & Susie Green's preferred affirmative medical approach to treating children

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3542000-Johanna-Olson-Kennedy-visiting-Professor-at-Bristol-University

Peter Dunne was involved in the Maria Miller Inquiry as an 'international expert' prior to his taking up roles at both Bristol University & TELI.
He was however previously involved in a key (&ongoing) role with TENI (Ireland)"

I don't know much about the normal trajectory of a legal or academic career ... but in Oct 2015 he was described as a 2nd year PhD student (on the FB TrinityCollegeDublinLaw page) and he's now a senior lecturer and an "international expert"? There's mention on the same FB page of Dunne organising a college event with Cearbhall Turraoin who is vice chair of TENI amongst other things including serving on the board of the Sex Workers Alliance Ireland. A gift to women in so many ways.

from Oxford Huma Rights Hub:

"Dr Peter Dunne is a Senior Lecturer at University of Bristol Law School and an Associate Member of Garden Court Chambers, London. Peter’s research focuses on the intersections of law, gender identity, sexual orientation and sex characteristics. Peter is currently the Senior Expert for Sexual Orientation of the European Equality Law Network. From 2017-2018, Peter undertook EU-funded research on national trans and intersex non-discrimination laws in Europe. With support from the Socio-Legal Studies Association, Peter (with Maria Moscati) is currently exploring the voice of trans children in England.

Peter regularly works with the UK government, European Union and civil society. His monograph ‘Rethinking Legal Gender Recognition: A Human Rights Analysis’ applies human rights principles to the affirmation of trans and non-binary identities."

January 2018 Peter Dunne & Tara Hewitt (TELI & NHS) co-wrote an article for OHRH prior to the start of the Westminster government's consultation on changes to the GRA. Both are described as Co-Conveners for Health with the Trans Legal Equality Initiative.
ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/gender-recognition-self-determination-and-segregated-space/

I'm no expert but I thought that once safeguarding concerns had been raised (as they surely were in this meeting) they could not just be brushed over but had to be explored. If people can just decide not to minute these concerns then safeguarding is rendered toothless.

Perhaps someone with safeguarding expertise can tell me. Missing Lang but hoping one of our other experts can tell me if I'm talking bollocks.

Its extra-ordinary that the serious Safeguarding concerns which were raised not be recorded in the minutes & then the action which must have been decided.

I cant imagine a context where this would be seen as acceptable or safe practice.

One might almost think that they don't want a recorded paper trail of concerns...