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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My complaint to Sussex Police re their handling of protest at WPUK Brighton Meeting

668 replies

WomanBornNotWorn · 03/02/2020 11:01

I was at the WPUK meeting in Brighton in September.

It was targeted by a group of protestors rather bigger than Saturday's London bunch - well, that one was just a little posy ...

They kicked and punched the windows for several hours, while Julie Bindel's video shows police officers staring into space:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7497869/Anger-crowd-transgender-rights-protesters-intimidate-meeting-womens-rights-group.html

I submitted a complaint that the officers allowed it to go on for a long time (watch the WPUK videos on You Tube and you'll hear it).

I've now received the detailed response from the police:

"Following your complaint, made regarding the actions of Sussex Police in dealing with a protest at a Woman’s Place UK meeting in Brighton on 23 September 2019, I have now completed my enquiries.

In your complaint you explained that you were unhappy that the officers who attended the incident at the Woman’s Place meeting took no action to prevent the disruption from protesters and stood by while protesters were shouting and banging on the windows of where the meeting was taking place.

Chief Inspector Sproston was the Public Order Silver Commander during the event, he held full responsibility for the actions of the staff who reported to him and he provided a report following the event.

The Bronze Commander was Inspector Lovell who was on the ground with the Public Order teams, he provided me with an account of the event.

Chief Inspector Sproston was fully aware of the problem caused by protestors at a previous WPUK meeting in the city and the requirements for public order policing. He and Inspector Lovell held a briefing prior to the event and formulated a plan to manage the protest against WPUK using the Protest Liaison Team (PLT).

The agreed venue, which WPUK had arranged for the meeting, was at the Odeon cinema. This afforded complete security with no access to the protestors once inside the venue. However on the evening of the event, the Odeon management declined to allow WPUK to hold their meeting there and the venue was changed. WPUK organisers had already identified a secondary location which Sussex Police were unaware of until they were informed of the venue changed half an hour before the meeting was due to start.

Inspector Lovell deployed his staff to the new venue at the BMECP Centre in Fleet Street using the same plan as was intended at the Odeon. Protestors were already at the venue and a public order team were sent to the front of the building. There were also four security staff employed by WPUK at the front, controlling entry to the building. The initial approach had been to use the PLT to try and engage with the protestors and they deployed as soon as they arrived at the new venue.

As the meeting progressed, part of the protest group went to the rear of the premises where the windows to the meeting room were at ground level. The protestors began banging on the windows and the PLT asked them to stop. When the banging escalated Inspector Lovell sent two Public Order Teams to form a cordon in front of the windows.

The protestors continued shouting and chanting at the front and the rear of the premises. Residents from the flats above threw water down onto the protestors, which also covered some of the Police Officers, but it could not be ascertained exactly which flat it had come from.

Chief Inspector Sproston had considered a number of things when making his assessment. The venue had been moved, with no notice, to a location that police had not been able to carry out a reconnaissance at. Their public order assessment had been for the Odeon cinema which had one manageable entrance and resources available to deal with that. Chief Inspector Sproston is confident that had there been a consultation on the new site, it would not have been recommended by police.

WPUK have the right to hold a meeting and not be subject to serious disorder, damage or disruption to the community. The protestors have the right to protest under articles 9, 10 and 11 of the Human Rights Act. Freedom of Expression under article 10 is applicable to the expression of views that may shock, disturb or offend the deeply held beliefs of others. This does however, have to be balanced against the rights of WPUK.

Chief Inspector Sproston considered imposing section 14 of the Public Order Act 1986 as the banging on the windows could have been interpreted as being intended to intimidate WPUK members with a view to compelling them not to hold their meeting, which they had a right to do.

Section 14 would have allowed the senior officer present to stipulate the location, duration and numbers of people allowed to protest. There was no suitable place to direct the protestors to as any place which would not have affected the venue of the meeting, would have meant the protestors would have been completely out of sight of the venue. This would have effectively stopped the protest and not just restricted its effect which is not in the spirit of articles 9, 10 and 11 of the Humans Rights Act. In turn this would have not stood up to scrutiny or challenge.

Although the protestors were loud, the meeting did go ahead and there were no reports of serious disorder, serious damage to property or disruption to the life of the community.

Public nuisance under common law was also considered. However this offence constitutes injury, loss or damage to the public in general. Undoubtedly the protestors were a nuisance by their presence but they did not commit this offence.

Inspector Lovell reported that there was no effort on behalf of the protestors to damage or enter the building. No one was prevented from entering or exiting the building and the meeting was able to go ahead.
There were 6 phone calls to police between 18:30 and 21:00, four from people inside the venue and two from third parties who were not in attendance.

The first caller was at 18:37 expressing concerns over people outside shouting. During the call they told the call taker that police were arriving on scene.

The second caller was at 19:15 concerned about the banging on windows. During the call they advised the call taker that police were now inside the building and helping.

The next two callers were also from inside the venue who expressed concerns about the banging on windows. One was at 19:24 and another at 19:27 who said that she was scared to leave the venue due to protestors smashing on the glass.

The last two callers were from third parties who had been in contact with people inside the venue. They were alerting the police to the banging on windows. One call was at 20:32 and the other at 20:54

There was only one call from a local resident at 21:20 complaining about the noise from the protestors. However Sussex Police were aware and monitoring the social media posts.

I have viewed Body Worn Video footage from several officers at the event. I have also viewed the video footage obtained by the Public Order Evidence Gathering Team (EGT).

At 19:09 the EGT footage showed a small group at the rear of the building with a few of the protestors banging on windows with their hands. The PLT were speaking with the protestors.

At 19:27 the EGT footage showed a larger group gathering at the rear and many of them were banging on the windows with their hands. The public order teams formed a cordon in front of the windows and the officers were physically pushing the protestors away from the building in order to prevent a Breach of the Peace.

At 19:30 BWV footage showed the officers getting between the protestors and the building to form the cordon, preventing the protestors from banging on the windows. Although some banging could be heard in the background, it was unclear where this was coming from. The footage continued until 20:20 and showed the officers with their backs against the building. The protestors formed a line in front of the police, with their backs to them whilst they continued to shout and chant.

At 21:09 BWV footage showed a protestor telling the group to go to the front of the building as the meeting was coming to an end. She told the protestors make sure they filmed the police and got their ID numbers.

At 21:11 BWV footage showed the police cordon between the protestors and the building, leaving a clear walkway for the attendees to leave the meeting. The protestors continued shouting until everyone had left the building.

The protestors were creating a lot of noise and their chants were not only against WPUK, they included obscenities aimed at the police. The footage supports the reports made by Chief Inspector Sproston and Inspector Lovell. There was no violence and no serious disorder.

Using the core principles, and legal framework set out by the College of Policing in their Authorised Professional Practice, I am satisfied that the event was policed lawfully, proportionately and appropriately.

The Professional Standards Department will retain a copy of your complaint and the local resolution outcome."

OP posts:
OhDeez · 03/02/2020 15:21

@littlbrowndog Stated

Ohdeez should women be physically attacked @BringbackLang

littlbrowndog · 03/02/2020 15:23

What ?

OhDeez · 03/02/2020 15:23

As the police officer stated in his response, there are several sections of law allowing freedom of speech and the right to protest. The exact same rights that WPUK had.

BovaryX · 03/02/2020 15:24

The only place women can meet to discuss women's rights is Tunbridge Wells. Possibly. And objective reality is provocative Is this some kind of parody?

OhDeez · 03/02/2020 15:26

It's not a parody. It's a normal person giving their viewpoint as they see it. We all know most of MN (most of whom are women) have hidden this board due to the views being expressed here. Please don't delude yourselves that all women agree with your views.

BringbackLang · 03/02/2020 15:26

Why are you tagging me? You're not exactly proving a point by being so disingenuous.

littlbrowndog · 03/02/2020 15:27

What now ?

SapphosRock · 03/02/2020 15:27

On the subject of women being attacked, a woman was raped on Brighton seafront a week or so before the WPUK meeting. In my opinion Sussex police should be concentrating on preventing attacks like that and helping the victims rather than having to do public order policing at WPUK meetings and investigating and writing up responses to complaints.

And no I'm not blaming WPUK - it's just unfortunate that Sussex police resources are needing to being used when there are serious crimes happening to women all the time in Brighton.

BovaryX · 03/02/2020 15:27

I don't think all women agree with my views. Why should I think that? People have a diversity of views on a diversity of subjects....

BovaryX · 03/02/2020 15:30

In my opinion Sussex police should be concentrating on preventing attacks like that and helping the victims rather than having to do public order policing at WPUK meetings

So you think the police should focus their attention on violent crimes? What do you think about Harry Miller getting visited by the police for tweets? Was that a legitimate use of police resources?

BringbackLang · 03/02/2020 15:31

How do you know how many people have hidden this board? Where did you get such a snippet of information from. As far as I know it has a high level of traffic.

ItsLateHumpty · 03/02/2020 15:31

Maybe if they stopped policing crime/non-crime they could do more actual police work.

Maybe you should suggest it to them rather than trying to blame some / WPUK for a man raping a women (which is abhorrent of you SapphosRock

ItsLateHumpty · 03/02/2020 15:32

some / WPUK should read women / WPUK

littlbrowndog · 03/02/2020 15:35

So now women can’t have meetings to discuss women’s rights in any town city or village where a woman has been raped.

Really ?

TruthOnTrial · 03/02/2020 15:35

We all know most of MN (most of whom are women)

You see, sweeping generalisations like this, that you don't have data on destroy your credibility.

Its only you thats says such a thing that somehow you know

Yes, I have heard posters say there are boards they hide, and some I've heard hide the feminism board.

Thats as far as I could go without figures.

Sapphos placing judgement on womens access to police help according to some not being needy enough, tells me a lot about your respect for women.

LangClegsInSpace · 03/02/2020 15:36

I remember very similar arguments about the use of police time after the Bristol JamJar meeting.

OhDeez · 03/02/2020 15:37

What do you think about Harry Miller getting visited by the police for tweets?

I've no idea who Harry Miller is, but I do know that there are laws governing social media conduct.

TruthOnTrial · 03/02/2020 15:40

But just because you say you're not blaming doesn't mean you aren't as your words state so clearly that you are. The same as putting levels of harm on womens right to police protection or to speak without fear of attack.

Its all wrong-thinking, like the wpuk somehow being held responsible for the words that the aggressors chanted whilst hammering on windows.

If you can't see that, going back to the OP, as being intending to threaten women into stopping meeting then there's no point talking to you.

Cascade220 · 03/02/2020 15:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cascade220 · 03/02/2020 15:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thelnebriati · 03/02/2020 15:59

What I don't understand is why WPUK choose to have these meetings in the centre of Brighton - the UK city most densely populated with trans people?
It's as if WPUK want the protests to occur in order to show how angry and aggressive trans people are to women.

How dense does the population have to be for women to be allowed to go about their lawful business?

Melroses · 03/02/2020 16:06

WPUK operates a kind of franchise system for meetings they help and support the local women's groups who want to hold meetings, after the meetings were shut down and someone assaulted.

If women in Brighton are concerned enough about their rights to hold meetings, they will hold meetings. They have every right to hold meetings for MPs to explain their reasons. I expect the women in Brighton know very well how their rights will be affected.

BringbackLang · 03/02/2020 16:06
  • What I don't understand is why WPUK choose to have these meetings in the centre of Brighton - the UK city most densely populated with trans people? It's as if WPUK want the protests to occur in order to show how angry and aggressive trans people are to women.**

So basically because Trans people live in Brighton, women are not allowed to meet to discuss their rights? Do you hear what you are saying and how insidious it is.

Michelleoftheresistance · 03/02/2020 16:11

they are definitely against trans women being legally recognised as women.

Now add the reasons why, since we all know WPUK didn't just wake up one morning and decide to be randomly bitchy about this. Who are female people's rights under attack from? What are the consequences of those stripping of sex based rights for female people? Why should female people not be allowed to be concerned or to meet about this? (And they do it and cope with this attack on their rights without bashing windows and trying to prevent anyone else with different views from meeting.)

As for the whole 'not in that town' - can we put the West Side Story fantasies down please? Half the population of Brighton are female and plenty of GC women are also LGBT. In any town, any section of the community should be free to associate and meet and discuss law without harassment and intimidation.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 03/02/2020 16:16

WPUK want the protests to occur in order to show how angry and aggressive trans people are to women

Women are not responsible for aggression directed at them.

Women meeting to discuss the law and their rights are not responsible for violence, intimidation, threats and abuse directed at them.

I just wanted to note that in 2020, in our democratic and peaceful country, women should be completely free to meet and discuss the law and women's rights, wherever and whenever they choose. It really shouldn't be 'controversial' for women to meet and talk. Really.

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