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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My complaint to Sussex Police re their handling of protest at WPUK Brighton Meeting

668 replies

WomanBornNotWorn · 03/02/2020 11:01

I was at the WPUK meeting in Brighton in September.

It was targeted by a group of protestors rather bigger than Saturday's London bunch - well, that one was just a little posy ...

They kicked and punched the windows for several hours, while Julie Bindel's video shows police officers staring into space:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7497869/Anger-crowd-transgender-rights-protesters-intimidate-meeting-womens-rights-group.html

I submitted a complaint that the officers allowed it to go on for a long time (watch the WPUK videos on You Tube and you'll hear it).

I've now received the detailed response from the police:

"Following your complaint, made regarding the actions of Sussex Police in dealing with a protest at a Woman’s Place UK meeting in Brighton on 23 September 2019, I have now completed my enquiries.

In your complaint you explained that you were unhappy that the officers who attended the incident at the Woman’s Place meeting took no action to prevent the disruption from protesters and stood by while protesters were shouting and banging on the windows of where the meeting was taking place.

Chief Inspector Sproston was the Public Order Silver Commander during the event, he held full responsibility for the actions of the staff who reported to him and he provided a report following the event.

The Bronze Commander was Inspector Lovell who was on the ground with the Public Order teams, he provided me with an account of the event.

Chief Inspector Sproston was fully aware of the problem caused by protestors at a previous WPUK meeting in the city and the requirements for public order policing. He and Inspector Lovell held a briefing prior to the event and formulated a plan to manage the protest against WPUK using the Protest Liaison Team (PLT).

The agreed venue, which WPUK had arranged for the meeting, was at the Odeon cinema. This afforded complete security with no access to the protestors once inside the venue. However on the evening of the event, the Odeon management declined to allow WPUK to hold their meeting there and the venue was changed. WPUK organisers had already identified a secondary location which Sussex Police were unaware of until they were informed of the venue changed half an hour before the meeting was due to start.

Inspector Lovell deployed his staff to the new venue at the BMECP Centre in Fleet Street using the same plan as was intended at the Odeon. Protestors were already at the venue and a public order team were sent to the front of the building. There were also four security staff employed by WPUK at the front, controlling entry to the building. The initial approach had been to use the PLT to try and engage with the protestors and they deployed as soon as they arrived at the new venue.

As the meeting progressed, part of the protest group went to the rear of the premises where the windows to the meeting room were at ground level. The protestors began banging on the windows and the PLT asked them to stop. When the banging escalated Inspector Lovell sent two Public Order Teams to form a cordon in front of the windows.

The protestors continued shouting and chanting at the front and the rear of the premises. Residents from the flats above threw water down onto the protestors, which also covered some of the Police Officers, but it could not be ascertained exactly which flat it had come from.

Chief Inspector Sproston had considered a number of things when making his assessment. The venue had been moved, with no notice, to a location that police had not been able to carry out a reconnaissance at. Their public order assessment had been for the Odeon cinema which had one manageable entrance and resources available to deal with that. Chief Inspector Sproston is confident that had there been a consultation on the new site, it would not have been recommended by police.

WPUK have the right to hold a meeting and not be subject to serious disorder, damage or disruption to the community. The protestors have the right to protest under articles 9, 10 and 11 of the Human Rights Act. Freedom of Expression under article 10 is applicable to the expression of views that may shock, disturb or offend the deeply held beliefs of others. This does however, have to be balanced against the rights of WPUK.

Chief Inspector Sproston considered imposing section 14 of the Public Order Act 1986 as the banging on the windows could have been interpreted as being intended to intimidate WPUK members with a view to compelling them not to hold their meeting, which they had a right to do.

Section 14 would have allowed the senior officer present to stipulate the location, duration and numbers of people allowed to protest. There was no suitable place to direct the protestors to as any place which would not have affected the venue of the meeting, would have meant the protestors would have been completely out of sight of the venue. This would have effectively stopped the protest and not just restricted its effect which is not in the spirit of articles 9, 10 and 11 of the Humans Rights Act. In turn this would have not stood up to scrutiny or challenge.

Although the protestors were loud, the meeting did go ahead and there were no reports of serious disorder, serious damage to property or disruption to the life of the community.

Public nuisance under common law was also considered. However this offence constitutes injury, loss or damage to the public in general. Undoubtedly the protestors were a nuisance by their presence but they did not commit this offence.

Inspector Lovell reported that there was no effort on behalf of the protestors to damage or enter the building. No one was prevented from entering or exiting the building and the meeting was able to go ahead.
There were 6 phone calls to police between 18:30 and 21:00, four from people inside the venue and two from third parties who were not in attendance.

The first caller was at 18:37 expressing concerns over people outside shouting. During the call they told the call taker that police were arriving on scene.

The second caller was at 19:15 concerned about the banging on windows. During the call they advised the call taker that police were now inside the building and helping.

The next two callers were also from inside the venue who expressed concerns about the banging on windows. One was at 19:24 and another at 19:27 who said that she was scared to leave the venue due to protestors smashing on the glass.

The last two callers were from third parties who had been in contact with people inside the venue. They were alerting the police to the banging on windows. One call was at 20:32 and the other at 20:54

There was only one call from a local resident at 21:20 complaining about the noise from the protestors. However Sussex Police were aware and monitoring the social media posts.

I have viewed Body Worn Video footage from several officers at the event. I have also viewed the video footage obtained by the Public Order Evidence Gathering Team (EGT).

At 19:09 the EGT footage showed a small group at the rear of the building with a few of the protestors banging on windows with their hands. The PLT were speaking with the protestors.

At 19:27 the EGT footage showed a larger group gathering at the rear and many of them were banging on the windows with their hands. The public order teams formed a cordon in front of the windows and the officers were physically pushing the protestors away from the building in order to prevent a Breach of the Peace.

At 19:30 BWV footage showed the officers getting between the protestors and the building to form the cordon, preventing the protestors from banging on the windows. Although some banging could be heard in the background, it was unclear where this was coming from. The footage continued until 20:20 and showed the officers with their backs against the building. The protestors formed a line in front of the police, with their backs to them whilst they continued to shout and chant.

At 21:09 BWV footage showed a protestor telling the group to go to the front of the building as the meeting was coming to an end. She told the protestors make sure they filmed the police and got their ID numbers.

At 21:11 BWV footage showed the police cordon between the protestors and the building, leaving a clear walkway for the attendees to leave the meeting. The protestors continued shouting until everyone had left the building.

The protestors were creating a lot of noise and their chants were not only against WPUK, they included obscenities aimed at the police. The footage supports the reports made by Chief Inspector Sproston and Inspector Lovell. There was no violence and no serious disorder.

Using the core principles, and legal framework set out by the College of Policing in their Authorised Professional Practice, I am satisfied that the event was policed lawfully, proportionately and appropriately.

The Professional Standards Department will retain a copy of your complaint and the local resolution outcome."

OP posts:
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Schmeller · 05/02/2020 23:08

What song lyrics were posted? I didn't know Bob Dylan was controversial!

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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/02/2020 23:39

The Times They Are A Changing, I believe. There's something extra funny about scolding us for not being modern enough using a song that's older than some people here.

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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/02/2020 23:43

Going back to the OP, my main issues would be as follows.

The police seem to be trying to deflect blame onto WPUK by saying if they hadn't changed venue at the last minute the police would have been able to do a better job keeping order. Technically this may be correct, but who's responsible for the venue change? Not WPUK. They didn't have a choice about changing venue. Could they have informed the police of the new venue sooner? I'm not sure about that part. Frankly I'm also not sure that giving advance notice of any venue changes wouldn't result in that information being passed on to TRA protestors, given how sympathetic many in the police seem to be towards their behavior.

Secondly, the issue of the banging on the windows. The police say they stopped this. Did they? That doesn't tally with the accounts I've heard from the people inside. Did they stop it for 10 minutes towards the end or something? This is an issue where what happened can be confirmed by those in attendance, and if the police report is not telling the truth then that should be very publicly called out.

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Schmeller · 05/02/2020 23:44

Haha. Novel way to argue a point I suppose!

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Schmeller · 05/02/2020 23:47

@TheProdigalKittensReturn I've made complaints re police and escalated eventually to the ombudsman (following all the complaint procedures). They will not back down.

This seems to be the critical point in the police response:

Public nuisance under common law was also considered. However this offence constitutes injury, loss or damage to the public in general. Undoubtedly the protestors were a nuisance by their presence but they did not commit this offence.

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Schmeller · 05/02/2020 23:51

Police have to consider whether the CPS will agree to charges. If they feel a law hasn't been broken, they won't arrest as the CPS won't support them. I'm sure that police officers who arrest people haphazardly and never get CPS support, would possibly be disciplined.

Were the police pre-informed of the meeting? Was WPUK expecting protests?

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TruthOnTrial · 06/02/2020 01:06

Public nuisance (from the .gov website)

Public nuisance is a common law offence involving environmental danger or loss of amenity or offensive public behaviour. The related common law offence of outraging public decency involves actions or displays in public places that outrage generally accepted standards of decency, in the presence of at least two people.

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OccasionalKite · 06/02/2020 01:57

Recorded violence towards women is disregarded.

Whereas the Harry Miller case,...!!!

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OccasionalKite · 06/02/2020 02:03

Violence towards women seeking to protect the safeguarding of children and women,.

It's a disgusting stance for the authorities to take.

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Schmeller · 06/02/2020 03:32

Please don't call protestors banging on windows 'violence against women'. It's an insult to those of us who have actually experienced violence.

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Schmeller · 06/02/2020 03:34

Violence towards women seeking to protect the safeguarding of children and women,

Where does the safeguarding of children come into it? The group is called Women's Places I thought?

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theflushedzebra · 06/02/2020 09:40

Were the police pre-informed of the meeting? Was WPUK expecting protests?

Yes, and yes. Surely you know this, if you read the thread, or even just the OP?

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Thelnebriati · 06/02/2020 10:15

Schmeller
Where does the safeguarding of children come into it?

Schools are illegally introducing mixed sex toilets. There have been several threads about it, girls are refusing to drink to avoid using them, and ending up with health problems as a result.

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theflushedzebra · 06/02/2020 10:20

Girls are also being forced to share open plan changing rooms with natal males in school, if they identify as girls.

Natal males, if they identify as girls, are sharing overnight accommodation dorms with girls, often without informing the parents.

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Thelnebriati · 06/02/2020 10:33

And I forgot the situation with Guides, where parents are not informed if the sleeping arrangements are mixed sex.

In fact, not informing parents and keeping secrets is a safeguarding issue on its own.
''Article 16 ensures a child's right to privacy. If a child/young person comes out as trans there is no immediate need to inform their parents/carers or other people.''
schools.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/sites/schools/files/folders/folders/documents/antibullying/policies/TransInclusionToolkitforSchools.pdf

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WomanBornNotWorn · 06/02/2020 13:14

Schmeller re the violence analogy:

I was there when, after a volley of window thumping and yelling by protestors, a young woman rushed out of the room in tears. Her friends later said it had triggered memories of her hiding in the bathroom while her abusive ex punched the door bellowing at her trying to get at her. Her memories of violence plus their behaviour designed to frighten and intimidate make it a relevant comparison.

OP posts:
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CautionEscalator · 09/02/2020 20:19

WPUK came to Brighton in 2018 as they were invited by Brighton women. There are a lot of women in Brighton- and a lot of feminist women- are you suggesting we don’t get to discuss legislative change?

The second meeting was as a parallel event to the Labour Party Conference. Are you suggesting feminist women are not welcome at the numerous conferences held in Brighton each year....?

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BatShite · 09/02/2020 21:10

Are you suggesting feminist women are not welcome at the numerous conferences held in Brighton each year....?

Not if they are going to be talking about upholding womens rights, as thats clearly transphobic and inflammatory...Hmm

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