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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My complaint to Sussex Police re their handling of protest at WPUK Brighton Meeting

668 replies

WomanBornNotWorn · 03/02/2020 11:01

I was at the WPUK meeting in Brighton in September.

It was targeted by a group of protestors rather bigger than Saturday's London bunch - well, that one was just a little posy ...

They kicked and punched the windows for several hours, while Julie Bindel's video shows police officers staring into space:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7497869/Anger-crowd-transgender-rights-protesters-intimidate-meeting-womens-rights-group.html

I submitted a complaint that the officers allowed it to go on for a long time (watch the WPUK videos on You Tube and you'll hear it).

I've now received the detailed response from the police:

"Following your complaint, made regarding the actions of Sussex Police in dealing with a protest at a Woman’s Place UK meeting in Brighton on 23 September 2019, I have now completed my enquiries.

In your complaint you explained that you were unhappy that the officers who attended the incident at the Woman’s Place meeting took no action to prevent the disruption from protesters and stood by while protesters were shouting and banging on the windows of where the meeting was taking place.

Chief Inspector Sproston was the Public Order Silver Commander during the event, he held full responsibility for the actions of the staff who reported to him and he provided a report following the event.

The Bronze Commander was Inspector Lovell who was on the ground with the Public Order teams, he provided me with an account of the event.

Chief Inspector Sproston was fully aware of the problem caused by protestors at a previous WPUK meeting in the city and the requirements for public order policing. He and Inspector Lovell held a briefing prior to the event and formulated a plan to manage the protest against WPUK using the Protest Liaison Team (PLT).

The agreed venue, which WPUK had arranged for the meeting, was at the Odeon cinema. This afforded complete security with no access to the protestors once inside the venue. However on the evening of the event, the Odeon management declined to allow WPUK to hold their meeting there and the venue was changed. WPUK organisers had already identified a secondary location which Sussex Police were unaware of until they were informed of the venue changed half an hour before the meeting was due to start.

Inspector Lovell deployed his staff to the new venue at the BMECP Centre in Fleet Street using the same plan as was intended at the Odeon. Protestors were already at the venue and a public order team were sent to the front of the building. There were also four security staff employed by WPUK at the front, controlling entry to the building. The initial approach had been to use the PLT to try and engage with the protestors and they deployed as soon as they arrived at the new venue.

As the meeting progressed, part of the protest group went to the rear of the premises where the windows to the meeting room were at ground level. The protestors began banging on the windows and the PLT asked them to stop. When the banging escalated Inspector Lovell sent two Public Order Teams to form a cordon in front of the windows.

The protestors continued shouting and chanting at the front and the rear of the premises. Residents from the flats above threw water down onto the protestors, which also covered some of the Police Officers, but it could not be ascertained exactly which flat it had come from.

Chief Inspector Sproston had considered a number of things when making his assessment. The venue had been moved, with no notice, to a location that police had not been able to carry out a reconnaissance at. Their public order assessment had been for the Odeon cinema which had one manageable entrance and resources available to deal with that. Chief Inspector Sproston is confident that had there been a consultation on the new site, it would not have been recommended by police.

WPUK have the right to hold a meeting and not be subject to serious disorder, damage or disruption to the community. The protestors have the right to protest under articles 9, 10 and 11 of the Human Rights Act. Freedom of Expression under article 10 is applicable to the expression of views that may shock, disturb or offend the deeply held beliefs of others. This does however, have to be balanced against the rights of WPUK.

Chief Inspector Sproston considered imposing section 14 of the Public Order Act 1986 as the banging on the windows could have been interpreted as being intended to intimidate WPUK members with a view to compelling them not to hold their meeting, which they had a right to do.

Section 14 would have allowed the senior officer present to stipulate the location, duration and numbers of people allowed to protest. There was no suitable place to direct the protestors to as any place which would not have affected the venue of the meeting, would have meant the protestors would have been completely out of sight of the venue. This would have effectively stopped the protest and not just restricted its effect which is not in the spirit of articles 9, 10 and 11 of the Humans Rights Act. In turn this would have not stood up to scrutiny or challenge.

Although the protestors were loud, the meeting did go ahead and there were no reports of serious disorder, serious damage to property or disruption to the life of the community.

Public nuisance under common law was also considered. However this offence constitutes injury, loss or damage to the public in general. Undoubtedly the protestors were a nuisance by their presence but they did not commit this offence.

Inspector Lovell reported that there was no effort on behalf of the protestors to damage or enter the building. No one was prevented from entering or exiting the building and the meeting was able to go ahead.
There were 6 phone calls to police between 18:30 and 21:00, four from people inside the venue and two from third parties who were not in attendance.

The first caller was at 18:37 expressing concerns over people outside shouting. During the call they told the call taker that police were arriving on scene.

The second caller was at 19:15 concerned about the banging on windows. During the call they advised the call taker that police were now inside the building and helping.

The next two callers were also from inside the venue who expressed concerns about the banging on windows. One was at 19:24 and another at 19:27 who said that she was scared to leave the venue due to protestors smashing on the glass.

The last two callers were from third parties who had been in contact with people inside the venue. They were alerting the police to the banging on windows. One call was at 20:32 and the other at 20:54

There was only one call from a local resident at 21:20 complaining about the noise from the protestors. However Sussex Police were aware and monitoring the social media posts.

I have viewed Body Worn Video footage from several officers at the event. I have also viewed the video footage obtained by the Public Order Evidence Gathering Team (EGT).

At 19:09 the EGT footage showed a small group at the rear of the building with a few of the protestors banging on windows with their hands. The PLT were speaking with the protestors.

At 19:27 the EGT footage showed a larger group gathering at the rear and many of them were banging on the windows with their hands. The public order teams formed a cordon in front of the windows and the officers were physically pushing the protestors away from the building in order to prevent a Breach of the Peace.

At 19:30 BWV footage showed the officers getting between the protestors and the building to form the cordon, preventing the protestors from banging on the windows. Although some banging could be heard in the background, it was unclear where this was coming from. The footage continued until 20:20 and showed the officers with their backs against the building. The protestors formed a line in front of the police, with their backs to them whilst they continued to shout and chant.

At 21:09 BWV footage showed a protestor telling the group to go to the front of the building as the meeting was coming to an end. She told the protestors make sure they filmed the police and got their ID numbers.

At 21:11 BWV footage showed the police cordon between the protestors and the building, leaving a clear walkway for the attendees to leave the meeting. The protestors continued shouting until everyone had left the building.

The protestors were creating a lot of noise and their chants were not only against WPUK, they included obscenities aimed at the police. The footage supports the reports made by Chief Inspector Sproston and Inspector Lovell. There was no violence and no serious disorder.

Using the core principles, and legal framework set out by the College of Policing in their Authorised Professional Practice, I am satisfied that the event was policed lawfully, proportionately and appropriately.

The Professional Standards Department will retain a copy of your complaint and the local resolution outcome."

OP posts:
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OhDeez · 03/02/2020 17:44

Perhaps you should look into this specific case which is under judicial review?
Anyone can request a judicial review. I've no interest in looking up the case of someone who has fallen foul of the law.

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TruthOnTrial · 03/02/2020 17:45

Then you wildly missed the point deez

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TruthOnTrial · 03/02/2020 17:45

That should have read widely

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TruthOnTrial · 03/02/2020 17:47

No, midge, just deviation.

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thehorseandhisboy · 03/02/2020 18:13

OhDeez I meant men are the most likely group to attack women (and other men).

As I'd already mentioned sex class, I think you knew that full well.

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OhDeez · 03/02/2020 18:14

Was there an update on this in the last day or so ? There seems to be a bit of deviation from the original topic

The thread was started today?

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OhDeez · 03/02/2020 18:15

You know full well we're discussing gender, not sex.

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SapphosRock · 03/02/2020 18:15

I should imagine arresting the protesters safely would require a large number of officers, ( no expert, but possibly with riot gear?).

Arresting them for what exactly? The worst thing to happen that night was someone banging on a window. It hardly requires riot gear!

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Languishingfemale · 03/02/2020 18:21

Wow. A bit shocked to find people on here arguing that women should be banned from meeting in certain parts of the country. Let alone shamefully arguing policing women meeting and being threatened by protesters diverts the police from investigating rape.

Still - when someone shows you who they are..........

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aliasundercover · 03/02/2020 18:24

@SapphosRock

why WPUK choose to have these meetings in the centre of Brighton - the UK city most densely populated with trans people? It's as if WPUK want the protests to occur in order to show how angry and aggressive trans people are to women

Um, Brighton is also 'densely populated' with lesbians - I'd hazard guess that there are a lot more lesbians than transitions in Brighton.Trans ideology probably affects lesbians more than any other group. I'd say Brighton is the ideal place to hold meeting like this.

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Michelleoftheresistance · 03/02/2020 18:24

If you go around banging on windows you should probably not be surprised if you get arrested, it's not exactly acceptable or appropriate. Intimidating, harassing, risking criminal damage, public order offense, anti social behaviour...… although agree, riot gear seems a bit over the top. Wink

Returning to the OP: do you plan on making a response to this? It's a nice, civil reply but they've skated rather lightly over some of the key points.

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thehorseandhisboy · 03/02/2020 18:26

OhDeez no. WPUK which the thread is about are concerned with protecting SEX based rights.

Derailing conversations about sex into ones about gender is part of the very problem that we're discussing.

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RoyalCorgi · 03/02/2020 18:29

why WPUK choose to have these meetings in the centre of Brighton - the UK city most densely populated with trans people?

Simple reason - it was to coincide with the Labour Party conference.

Incidentally, WPUK have held meetings all over the country - London, Oxford, Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff, Leeds and so on and so forth, so assuming they chose Brighton because of its dense trans population is a bit paranoid.

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OhDeez · 03/02/2020 18:34

What has the Labour Party conference got to do with the price of chips?

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SapphosRock · 03/02/2020 18:34

@aliasundercover yes I know Brighton has lots of lesbians, being one myself.

I can see why both WPUK attendees and trans protestors felt threatened by the other. Being female and being a lesbian doesn't mean I've lost all empathy for trans people.

Although I (mainly) agreed with the WPUK speakers it doesn't mean I can't appreciate why trans people in Brighton might find it threatening that a group of women have travelled to their home city to hold a meeting about trans rights and how to do away with them.

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Cascade220 · 03/02/2020 18:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cascade220 · 03/02/2020 18:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhDeez · 03/02/2020 18:42

The founders of WPUK have strong links to the Labour Party and trade union movement.

And............?

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TruthOnTrial · 03/02/2020 18:43

You keep repeating this in various ways, that WPUK were in Brighton to discuss trans rights.

Please give evidence. Otherwise your words are pointless;. you have now asserted many wrong-thinks

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Cascade220 · 03/02/2020 18:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

littlbrowndog · 03/02/2020 18:44

Maybe the women came from Brighton sapphos. ?

Is that a possibility ?

Are the women in Brighton allowed to go to women’s meetings to talk about women’s rights ?

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TruthOnTrial · 03/02/2020 18:45

The venue discussion is just further derailment and pointless.

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littlbrowndog · 03/02/2020 18:45

Haha Spartacus that really made me laugh 😂

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2020 18:46

The venue discussion is just further derailment and pointless.

This.

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Cascade220 · 03/02/2020 18:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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