Purity spirals

[RoyalCorgi]

This is a brilliant piece by Gavin Haynes, tied to a radio programme, about the concept of "purity spirals" - the idea that's taken hold in certain groups that you have to continually demonstrate your ethical credentials. The example he gives is anti-racism in the knitting world, but obviously it can apply equally trans activism. Anyone who isn't 100% pure is regarded as morally beyond the pale. He makes historical analogies with Maoism, amongst other things. Fascinating - and spot on.

unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a-purity-spiral/

Previous thread about the knitting witch hunts.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3703610-Cast-Off-Diversity-wars-are-raging-in-the-knitting-world

meuca

that sounds awful. How insensitive do you have to be not to question yourself when someone is crying like that.

kesstrel

Yeah, that's my observation as well, but I'd add that it can include some really nasty accusations at times. I remember once pointing out in a discussion, really very briefly, that an argument a poster was making couldn't really be used as a "proof" because it wasn't possible to show it empirically - which is exactally what would have happened and does happen with the argument this individual was making. I got called an apologist for child molesters and it was implied that it was because I probably had some stake in it. And I've seen similar and equally unpleasant accusations to other people in similar ways.

And like you said, it's always the same people who are essentially trying to police the conversation.

How is a white knitter meant to “include enough BIPOC” in their knitting

Wasn't one of the controversies that a knitter wasn't using models who were considered "diverse" enough?

Though I'd have thought that if you were Scottish, say, and had mainly Scottish models, you could claim they were all indigenous? Unless they think only Pictish models would count??

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/01/stitch-up-online-sewing-community-at-war-over-cultural-appropriation

The sewing debacle story. The small, independent pattern company in question, run by two women, could have easily folded.

Sewing communities online have become extremely woke and in some cases quite hostile.

meuca
Wow, this fascinating thread has been so informative about what is quite an arcane world, unless you are involved in it. I would never have imagined that knitting would be the arena for such conflict, but as many PP have pointed out, it attracts maybe a very passionate yet divergent group of people. It also highlights how a small group of individuals determined to cause a ruckus can ignite internecine flame wars. Someone should write a book about this! It's really interesting.

On now.

Professor Andrews (Professor of Black Studies) of Birmingham City University says that since it's not possible for us to go through life without doing something that upholds a white supremacist society then it's reasonable for us all to be labelled as "white supremacists". (I suspect the "all" concept there is being very slippery.)

His next contribution. If you find yourself the target of a purity spiral you need to reflect on how you might have caused it.

Best defence against witchfinding is a society that doesn’t believe in witches.

I will have to listen again as it was quite complicated to work it all out. Not sure about prof Andrews.

I view him as someone propping up a controversial social science discipline while earning a living and obtaining his influence from its existence.

I'm just listening to a recording of the programme now. Very struck by this quote from the bloke who was trying to calm down the frenzy:

They thought I was telling the black community to 'be nice'. I wasn't, I was telling the knitting community to be respectful

From the context, it's clear he means 'be respectful of one another'.

I was startled by how closely that quote fits what sometimes goes on here.

Oh, I'd not made the link with the "kimono" issue. I did see it at the time but hadn't made the link.
Thankfully my real-life crafting group has not fallen prey to this.

The kimono thing is just mad! Why can't a white British person (or in fact anyone) describe something kimono-like as a kimono? Does it mean no one can call things pyjamas, shawls and gilets unless they come from the culture where that thing was first invented and named? Is it OK if a BIPOC person uses a descriptor from "white" culture about something of their own? Is it OK to appropriate from someone else but only if they're also white?

What I really despair at is how people who are doing this aren't able to see how meaningless and illogical it is. It only matters that you slap someone else down and jostle for position at the top of the spiral - it doesn't matter if your position is built on sand.

For me, one of the parallels with the trans issue was that the maker of the programme approached more than 20 of the leading social justice knitters for comment, assuming that "these strident anti-racists would be delighted to proclaim their gospel on the Beeb." But none of them would offer an argument.

That was bad enough but my jaw hit the floor when he said one of them had responded with a cease and desist letter, from 11:01:

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000d70h

But none of them would offer an argument.

Yes, very, very similar to the situation with trans. I would love to know what was in their minds. Of course, there was a commercial element as well - I wonder how much that played a part.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jan/03/moral-grandstanding-politics-emotional-needs-oliver-burkeman?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Gmail
Oliver Burkeman wrote about moral grandstanding a few weeks ago, which seems to be in a similar pattern I think. He talks about lack of insight into the motivation.

He is so talking about Owen Jones there

I'm another who has stepped away from online crafting communities because it's become so tiresome. I think what a pp said about it attracting a lot of vulnerable people is very true. There is a mentality that if you're not going wildly out of your way to include everyone you're a fascist (and I swear to God anyone who throws that word around so easily ought to spend some time reading about actual fascism and reflect on a different meaning of appropriation.)

I saw a one woman pattern company nearly shut down over accusations of being fat-phobic because she didn't create her patterns up to 4XL and replied to requests by linking to resources where she learned to pattern draft. What shocks me is the amount of anger people can have towards a stranger saying no very kindly. It feels like such a waste of emotional energy.

Has anyone mentioned the Jon Ronson book So You've Been Publicly Shamed? yet? What really got me about that was the lasting consequences for the person at the centre of the Twitter storm/ similar, while the perpetrators had zero penalties. @MoltenLasagne your pattern making example made me think of that.

I think you are all demonstrating signs of white privilege....

(joking). Quite an amazing insight into how things escalate in communities.

Fascinating thread.

I've just listened to it. Interesting that none of the most vocal knitting sjw's didn't want to be interviewed to the extent of one issuing a ceast and desist. Considering it was the BBC and not Pier's Morgan or similar it would have given them a fair hearing.

Piers. My autocorrect is attempting to no platform him.

Their commitment to social justice isn't about letting people know what's wrong. Otherwise they would be thrilled to be given a platform on the BBC to spread the word. What it's about is identifying the non-compliant in their community and attacking them to enhance their own reputation within that community.

It's a way to climb the hierarchy in a social group. David Attenborough could make a film about it.