Feel like I'm shouting into a void.

[HerRoyalFattyness]

Or ended up in a parallel universe.

Trying to explain why self ID is an issue and I'm getting called a terf and told that my rape is my problem to deal with.

So basically, don't be scared of men, shut up and deal with it little woman.

Patriarchy at its finest. Yet I'm the one being told I'm not a feminist.

i've had similar from twitter randoms but i can't imagine how painful this must be from real life friends.

console yourself with the fact they are not very clever or empathic. there are better friends to be found out there.

i hope you can find yourself some support for everything else as well. it sounds like you are dealing with a lot right now.

OP I’m so sorry

I thought you were going to say real life

I have a friend who “acknowledges the difficulties” for victims but still thinks all this change is great. She said “we can’t base planning on the idea that people might break the law”.

We are still friends but it’s been a lot of compromise on both sides.

This 47% trans suicide myth really needs challenging.

It's a shame you blocked them before calling them out. It's simply not true.
But sorry you had to go through that.

My own brother said I was "like a racist" because not wanting transwomen in women's spaces IS EXACTLY THE SAME as not wanting black people in women's spaces.

You definitely need space after that sort of thing.

Qcng
So if you're like a racist does that mean we can be transracial?

You've got us Fatty. Xx

There are believed to be 200k-500k trans people in the UK.

In 2018, there were 6,000 suicides of all people, nationwide.

If 47% of trans people were committing suicide, they'd represent nearly every suicide case out there. There's no way to add up lifespan numbers to reach any other conclusion.

There is not a significantly larger proportion of actual (as opposed to self-reported attempted) suicide in the trans population than, say, the white male population at large. If there were, you'd literally see them every day. The occasional reports of trans suicides we actually see would jibe very closely with the national overall rate of 10-15 per 100,000 people, if it's in the neighborhood of 20-75 trans suicides in the UK per year. Even if you assume there's massive underreporting, there's not that level of underreporting of suicides overall.

I believe the correct expression is either ‘ach, yer talkin’ shite’ or ‘bollocks’.

womb
Well of course, 47% is a ridiculous "statistic"
And of course it's all our fault because how dare women stand up for women's rights.

Lordfrontpaw
I'm quite fond of "ach, behave, ye heid the baw" as my lovely grandad used to tell us when we were being idiots

I am sorry they did this to you.
If they understood anything about the dangers of social contagion they would not repeat the lies transition advocates use to market their submit, or die, mythology.

Yeah.
Well. I've since posted this

Might as well weed them all out now while I'm in the mood for an argument

Sending hugs

There's a growing movement of people who are wanting to debate this. A young girl going on Jeremy Vine show, who's detransitioning and debating what's been happening. It's going mainstream and people are beginning to be able to debate.
Many many young girls are transistioning and it definitely could do with being discussed.
Most still discuss it anonymously on here and twitter for above reasons.

'What is a woman?' is asked of politicians quite regularly now, by different people who aren't collaborating.

The most rational core of what they are saying, I think is, to what extent can individuals personal experiences dictate or direct public policy on rights issues for others. In itself that is a reasonable question that doesn't mean individuals experiences don't matter

The issue I have with this is that my individual experience is by no means unique (see for example, the OP!) and in fact is horrifyingly common. It’s a very real issue for a huge amount of women. So it’s not about my own personal lived experience trumping the rights of lots of others or dictating public policy on rights. In reality it’s about a huge section of societys lived experience of being frightened/abused/hurt dictating public policy. I also think as a starting point it totally overlooks the fact that currently it is by rights my (ie a woman’s) protected space. So really, the argument - as far as I see it anyway- is should the current public policy protecting the rights of a big and vulnerable group be overturned by new public policy to protect a much smaller vulnerable group.

But all of this is separate from the OPs ‘friends’ being nought but oxygen thieves for expressing themselves in the way they did to someone they know has suffered in the way she has. Does NOT help their cause though.

I have a friend who “acknowledges the difficulties” for victims but still thinks all this change is great. She said “we can’t base planning on the idea that people might break the law”.

This is why I emphasise arguments of privacy and dignity, it's harder to argue against because they are literally saying that male feelings are more important than women's and it doesn't sound quite so woke.

peaktrans.org

Trigger warning though x

Sending you a very unmumsnetty hug my love. Your tribe are here.

“ This is why I emphasise arguments of privacy and dignity“

She doesn’t get why anyone would feel the need to wash hands or pee out of earshot of men.

I’ve said before, erosion of privacy generally is a big issue feeding into a lot of problems right now.

Yeah, all the "woke" people I know are "comfortable with unisex spaces and don't see the issue if you're in a cubicle"

It's clearly pointless. Until more women in the public light start standing up and saying this is a problem, we won't get very far I fear.

GoosesGeeses

The question of the starting point is impoprtant because we really can't think things like this through unless we can start from the beginning. To me, the logical starting place with toilets, change rooms, etc is, why do are they sex segregated at all? And we might not all agree about that, I know people who think they shouldn't be, but at least you can pinpoint where you differ, and agree to disagree, or try to understand the other perspective. Heck, you might even be able to say, let's see if we can find some empirical evidence to lend weight to one side or the other.

I've begun to feel like people are no longer able to have discussions like this, not just that they aren't willing, but that they aren't up to it. I have a friend who posts stupid stats about rans and other things, or even real stats but doesn't know when they can be applied and when they can't. (I think that this is a lot of the reason why people are so aggressive and rude. They have no capacity to really discuss.) But you can't really talk to her about it, it's not fruitful. I find myself wondering, were people always like this, or is it new? Because if its just how people are I can't help but think the idea of liberal democracy may be doomed.

She doesn’t get why anyone would feel the need to wash hands or pee out of earshot of men.

No, but she can't dictate how you feel. It might not convince the person you are arguing against but for other readers it lays out clearly that it's about prioritising the feelings of male people over female people.

The 47% stat is a lie.

There was a survey done of a small group of trans-identified people, of whom 47% said they'd considered suicide at some stage. These are people who believe they are trapped in the wrong body. They are unhappy that others don't see them as they want to be seen. It's a distressing situation, and one you might expect to result in desperate thoughts.

Hey HerRoyalFattyness solidarity, and sorry to hear you're going through a shit time right now. Hope you're finding the support here useful.

I'm guessing from your description of your circumstances, this might be challenging to do, but if you can find a meet up locally to you 'offline' it might be helpful.

The people I've met as a result of connecting here helped me remember that the majority of people don't think like this. And getting it off your chest with people who are familiar with the debate is also incredibly cathartic.

And what's lovely is that local meets are made up of women with so many perspectives, political, experience, age, etc. It's OK to disagree on things.

Unlike the cult-ish rules of the online world, women from all backgrounds are coming together on this issue.