Keira Bell

[MarieIVanArkleStinks]

I'm not sure whether this issue has been debated on this board, as I haven't been posting/reading here for a few weeks. But the story is here:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/22/former-transgender-patient-tells-court-sex-change-clinic-putting/

and here:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7926675/Witness-court-battle-against-gender-clinic-reveals-happened-cry-help.html

TLDR: The Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust, which runs the UK's only gender identity development service (GIDS) for children, is being sued over concerns that youngsters are being given "experimental treatment" without adequate assessments.

Keira's view as to her symptoms, and lack of warning about them:

I had symptoms similar to the menopause when a woman's hormones drop. I had hot flushes, I found it difficult to sleep, my sex drive disappeared. I was given calcium tablets because my bones weakened.

Keira claims she was not warned by the Tavistock therapists of the dreadful symptoms ahead. 'My female hormones had been flushing through my body and, suddenly, a curtain came down on them. It felt pretty bad,' she recalls.

And as to now:

'The treatment needs to change so that it does not put young people, like me, on a torturous and unnecessary path that is life-changing. I feel like I've been lied to because it did not make me feel any better.

As she struggles to return to life as a woman, she adds, with feeling: 'I don't want any more kids to suffer like me.

That poor woman. This is unconscionable, and the mere idea of the opposite side of this view even having a case to answer in court is so frightening it seems to be bordering on dystopia. In the meantime (and not directly applicable to FtoM transition) I know someone who is currently experiencing hideous, debilitating menopausal symptoms, and is unable to get HRT. There just isn't any available. Instead, her GP has prescribed her with ... Prozac.

I'm curious to know whether MtoF transitioners are experiencing the same issue.

I think it’s more than reasonable!

One of the potential outcomes is that In future all minors who wish to be prescribed these drugs will have to petition a judge for the final decision. Considering gender medicine is very political, that seems like an option that will be better for both patient and clinician.

However she was 20 when she signed the forms to have her Breasts removed.. Hardly a Child.

What do you mean by hardly a child? Do you mean someone who have matured to a point where they have developed the mental capacity to make these decisions? If so, you are ignoring the fact that her mental maturity was halted at 16, her IQ was reduced and her mood was affected by the puberty blockers. The decision was not made at 20, it was made at 16 went she was sent down that route.

'Mental maturity halted'?

I think that's a stretch too far.

I have a good friend who hadn't started her period at 18. She was finally diagnosed with a pituitary tumour half way through her first year at HCP uni. I suggest she'd be quite offended with the suggestion she was mentally in arrested development as a result!

Why would you compare your friends pituitary tumour with Keira Bell’s chemically induced premature menopause?

My mum had ovarian cancer age 50 and she was just fine after a hysterectomy - no regrets, unlike these silly detransitioners! 🙃🙄

Furthermore, 'IQ reduced??

Would you extrapolate, conversely, to believe a girl who hit sexual maturity at 9 or 10 would have capacity?

I am making that comparison, somewhat obviously, because Aesop implied that a person having blockers, thus being prevented from 'maturing' in that sex, would have their IQ reduced, and intellectual abilities stunted.

My friend would object to that, quite rightly.

Read the Biggs study. The information you are looking for is there.

Unless you aren’t actually looking for information and are just taking the opportunity to insult a traumatised young woman?

I'm not insulting her! It's not me implying the puberty blockers made her incapable of rational decision making and a lower IQ, is it??

This is a very specific judicial review to determine if a ‘competent minor’ can give properly informed consent to be treated for gender dysphoria with GnrHa drugs.

Which doesn’t apply to you mr friend, does it?
Nor my mum.

Have you read the study?

Let's face it, GA surgery, hormones, everything- has transformed a lot of people's lives for the better.

I’m guessing “GA” means “genital affirmation”, which rather fluffily glosses over how extreme and mutilating it is. Not to mention the comparatively small numbers who ever have the surgery... due to how extreme and mutilating it is.

I wonder if Jazz Jennings still thinks the surgery was worth it?

Satan certainly doesn’t.

Miljea there have been a range of studies that show puberty blockers reduce IQ by up to an average of 10 points. Even Tavistock have admitted the wider affects on the developing brain are unknown.

Aesop, in the interests of accuracy: when I looked at those results it seemed that the expected rise of ability with age stalled, rather than the children having a fall in ability. As iq is a ratio, that meant a drop in iq.

It wasn’t clear to me whether allowing a later natural or artificial puberty then led to any catch up in iq.

We can debate this all our lives and never come to any agreement, but one question came to my mind earlier today. What if Keira had been questioned more, challenged more as she says she wish she had been, yet still went ahead with blockers and testosterone and surgery. What then? Would she still be suing the NHS then?

SHE ISN’T SUING THE NHS1

Jesus fucking Christ.

Datun, these are 2 people, Blanchard and Bailey with an agenda. Just look at the title of Bailey's book about it to know he didn't go into it with an open mind - "the man who would be queen: The Science of Gender Bending and Transsexualism". An objective title would have been more along the lines of "a study of trans individuals", but that doesn't sound sensational enough to sell books does it. Here's the Wiki page for Bailey en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Michael_Bailey

who do you think runs the tavistock? who do you think will be picking up the bill?

SHE ISN’T SUING

It’s a judicial review, not a civil claim. Keira gets no money out of it. The whole point is to make sure that the Tavistock are acting legally.

Every one wants to comment yet no one has a clue what they are commenting on!

I had to point out the difference between Bailey and Blanchard TO YOU oopster!

Professor Heneghan from the Oxford Centre for Evidence Based Medicine concluded in a post in the British Medical Journal dated 25/2/19 : “An Archive of Diseases in Childhood letter referred to GnRHa treatment as a momentous step in the dark. It set out three main concerns: 1) young people are left in a state of ‘developmental limbo’ without secondary sexual characteristics that might consolidate gender identity; 2) use is likely to threaten the maturation of the adolescent mind, and 3) puberty blockers are being used in the context of profound scientific ignorance.”

The current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice in children. “ Many professionals are now highly concerned about the treatments for under 18 gender dysphoric children and adolescents which remain largely experimental. There are so many unanswered questions that include the age at start, reversibility; serious adverse health events, long term effects on mental health, neurological effects on cognitive functioning, the effect on bone density, circulatory systems and sexual functioning in adulthood. We cannot stand by and watch young people be part of an experimental medical treatment that exposes them to very significant risks. We should be providing thoughtful, expert, longer term psychological help and therapy, which research has shown to be helpful for many of these children.

The above is taken from Keira and Mrs A’s crowdjustice page. £65,000 has been raised to pay for the case so far.

What if Keira had been questioned more, challenged more as she says she wish she had been, yet still went ahead with blockers and testosterone and surgery.

She wouldn't have been able to do that using the NHS if the NHS weren't offering those services to children. That's what the case is about. Not whether she was challenged enough or whether she made a mistake when she consented, but whether children are capable of informed consent about such things as loss of sexual function and infertility and all the other consequences of this treatment, which are more extreme when started in adolescence.

www.segm.org/home

www.segm.org/about_us

Gender clinicians are taking a stand because children and young people are not getting the evidenced based medicine they deserve.