Parents rejecting gender neutral (unisex) toilets

[NotTerfNorCis]

Here's a ray of light. This is what most people really think.

Hundreds of people have signed a petition against gender-neutral toilets at a school in Leicester.

The toilets were introduced at New College in New Parks, Leicester after the school's Christmas holidays.

Around 500 people have signed the petition, which is against the introduction of the toilets.

www.itv.com/news/central/2020-01-13/hundreds-sign-petition-against-gender-neutral-toilets-in-leicester-school/

@SarahTancredi the 16 now gender neutral where previously 8 male 8 female. There are still the single sex toilets like there were before which is like 30 or so. The toilets are cleaned 4 times a day as the school is open after school also for other clubs like when i take my kid for gymnastics and I see the cleaners in them then cleaning, and my daughter has said shes seen the cleaners in them through the day and before school which has also been confirmed by my TA BF.

@SarahTancredi boys certainly have less cubicles. My son says theres a urinal in the single sex toilets and not many cubicles.

So previously the boys had 15 plus 8 so 23. And the girls had 15 plus 8.

But now boys have 15 plus 16 gender neutral. And the girls who arent using the gender neutral toilets just have the 15.

So boys have 31 toilets. Girls 15?

My first concern is for the girls in this scenario as their options due to their biology are now limited. It's unlikely that a trans boy using the same facilities as boys will intimidate or threaten the boys. The other way round we could have a serious issue.

However my original point still stands with either group of trans youngsters .... a very, very small number vs those of girls.

Whilst 46 toilets seems a large number of school volume has increased then it no longer is.

If it is such an issue for a student

Tipped your hand a bit there, mate.

Stan Is Sarah correct in the breakdown of girl, boy, mixed-sex provision?

Any assessment on whether girls will use / feel comfortable using mixed sex toilets?

My understanding concurs with Sarah is that girls won’t/ are reluctant to use mixed sex provision. On paper there is the provision but in practice it serves to reduce the provision which girls actually or are comfortable to use.

No point designing for how we think children should behave, design around how children will behave.

@SarahTancredi yes your calculations would be right there, but for my daughter and friends there are more toilets to use, which I suppose would allievate any demand on the single sex toilets also for those who prefer them? It is a matter of choice and there is choice for everyone.

I think there would be a huge safeguarding issue around a trans boy using the single sex boys toilets as surely there could be a percieved risk of sexual attack and males would probably not like a biological female in there whilst they are using the urinals. This gives the trans students toilets to use which are supportive of their needs without opening up a whole different can of worms over when it is acceptable for a trans person to enter the toilets of their chosen gender.

It's rather like telling a vegan that you've provided a wide range of meat based options, then acting confused as to why they're not more enthusiastic about your generous offerings.

@ThinEndoftheWedge this came through the student council as a suggestion to do which the schools taken up, so students must have supported it, alongside my daughter and her friends etc as they're not on the council?

Stan yes, I definitely agree a gender neutral space is that way forward but the ratio of this seems wrong as it will have a detrimental effect on girls.

there are more facilities than before

According to the article, that's because the school has an unprecedented number of students. They need more toilets, sure. But why unisex ones?

Also, you said that the 500 people signing the petition were from outside the school. How would people not connected to the school even know about this? It's not exactly headline news - just this short, obscure article after the fact.

The article which was published online in the Leicester Mercury and on their Facebook page has a hyperlink to the petition on it. Many signatures were added after the publication of this article.

So girls have less toilets they can comfortably use and none on the main building they have to go further afield which I'm.sure is great when you are flooding or about to puke and you dont see a problem. But it's ok cos a girl won't see a penis of a male classmate at a urinal? So privacy matters to the boys then?

Just not the girls ...

@SarahTancredi no matter what I say you will not budge on your view, which you are entitled to. I am of a difference stance and have personal experience of this school. The single sex toilets are situated near the bulk of classrooms. The gender neutral are in the new build area which consists of science, hair, health and social, music and drama and the school theatre for assemblies. Privacy matters to all the students which is why there are still gender specific toilets also for those uncomfortable. I'm glad there is a debate and sharing of views and not just mud slinging as this can often turn into on a divisive subject. I also think, certainly for the attitudes of my children and their friends, their perception of this is quite different to adults. One comment on the petition for instance says this makes it easier for paedophiles?! Definitely not the case.

Thanks for the tip, the Leicester Mercury article is quite informative.

www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/fury-oversubscribed-city-school-makes-3722730

Gender-neutral toilets at an oversubscribed city school have enraged parents, prompting a petition that has been signed by hundreds of people.

There’s huge anger about it. It’s going to increase the risk of sexual assault and boys have already been joking with each other about putting cameras in the toilets to film the girls.

About 500 people have signed the petition at www.change.org, including one female New College student who wrote: “This is ridiculous!

“To have no privacy when having to change a tampon or pad for a week every month is disgusting!

“Already boys have been gathering together around the toilets which makes such an uncomfortable atmosphere."

But this puts the onus on the girls to "keep themselves safe"

The adults should be doing this by default. Being the adults and all. Not relying on girls to suddenly snap out of years of female socialisation and being savvy enough to know what the best thing to do would be.

Sensationalist journalism for all the points I've outlined including staff supervision and the height and size of the doors. But those points will continue to be ignored. Go visit the school, I'm sure they'd be happy to show you around on a tour rather than just making judgements on one article. Also what's more interesting is most of the schools in the city have the same set up of toilets. This is one of the last secondarys to make the change.

It's not so much sensationalist reporting as quoting parents and students involved in this, whose experiences count just as much as yours.

Go visit the school, I'm sure they'd be happy to show you around on a tour

"Greetings, headmaster/headmistress! I am a random adult who would like a tour of the toilets used by your students!"

Speaking of ill advised...

@NotTerNorCis and every comment is from parents and students or also from others who have only been presented with some of the information? Baring in mind the open plan nature and separate enclosed cubicles, as well as the CCTV and staffing at these areas the risks are no more than previously. I understand other peoples viewpoints as I've already said but have made mine clear and provided information on why.

Teenage girls tend to prefer not baring anything in front of random boys. That's rather the point.

(You're not very good at this.)

@TheProdigalKittensReturn certainly not ill advised. They offer guided tours to the public, its part of the school culture. I remember requesting one before my daughter joined and I was surprised at what I saw, nothing like I'd heard and I sent her and then my son. Sure they'd rather be able to show people and remove worry than have people throw accusations and make assumptions.

Are you their PR person? I mean, if so it's not working, I'm just curious.

CCTV IN THE LOOS? This just gets worse and worse

@theprodigalkittensreturns no I'm a parent and a user of the schools facilities. I had said before I'm glad this had been a good debate to be able to put forward different viewpoints. Your views are no more right or wrong than mine, but I won't be going into insulting or name calling someone else for having a different view. Ive used these toilets before whilst waiting for my daughter in gymnastics and will continue to use them if I need to. I certainly won't be exposed to anyone - I'll be behind a locked door.