Parents rejecting gender neutral (unisex) toilets

[NotTerfNorCis]

Here's a ray of light. This is what most people really think.

Hundreds of people have signed a petition against gender-neutral toilets at a school in Leicester.

The toilets were introduced at New College in New Parks, Leicester after the school's Christmas holidays.

Around 500 people have signed the petition, which is against the introduction of the toilets.

www.itv.com/news/central/2020-01-13/hundreds-sign-petition-against-gender-neutral-toilets-in-leicester-school/

I've seen it called the urinary leash, but same idea!

Once You have had the full info from your dd,I would be tempted to write to the school and complain about it as a safeguarding issue, asking about the safeguarding review they did beforehand, particularly with regard to female students (because obviously when making a change like this that has so many obviously negative effects they did a safeguarding assessment right?!?) and pointing out that they are now in breach of the law for not providing separate sex loos, not to mention pointing out that the UN sees lack of separate sex loos as a bad thing.

I would also point out that if they dangle stonewall as any sort of reason for doing this, that they are a homophobic mysoginistic lobby group who have a vested interest in giving incorrect legal advice as that’s the result they are hoping for not to mention they include paedophiles as a legitimate trans group on their umbrella diagram (I’m sure I’ve seen that here, maybe somebody could verify that?).

I’d finish off with stats on articles about the problems adults have had with the introduction of mixed sex loos (Home Office, ministry of defence, rate of offences in mixed sex changing rooms in pools etc) to show how if adults struggle then kids will do too...

If your dd doesn’t want to be seen as making a fuss then I would say it is coming from you and you don’t expect her to suffer any repercussions as a result of you making a safeguarding complaint.

If you have a parents Facebook page, maybe ask on there for views on this without giving away your concerns to start with. Hopefully most normal parents will be outraged and you can suggest that everybody submits a safeguarding complaint so that you can’t all be fobbed off as being ‘the only person complaining’. And if there are known trans children at school (assuming it’s not a majority of kids!) then they get sympathy and understanding for their dysphoria but get to use the staff toilets to keep them and the rest of the children safe* and comfortable - and watch staff hackles complain they don’t want to be in that position - another string to argue so why should the rest of the students have to?

• • not trying to say that there’s anything unsafe about the trans students, it works about keeping them safe too, but trying - badly - to encapsulate why to keep the loos single sex rather than mixed sex and safety is always a big issue.

Sexism in the 'Bathroom Debates': How Bathrooms Really Became Separated By Sex

W. Burlette Carter in Yale Law & Policy Review, Vol. 37, No. 1, 2018

papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3311184

@Troels

I was a hands off parent in my day, but I regret it now. Our children need us to fight their corner

TRAs are arguing that bathrooms always used to be mixed 'until the ‘separate spheres’ sexism of the late 1800s'. I'm not a toilet historian but isn't this a red herring?

No this is completely inaccurate.
The ancient Romans had public. "toilets" (obviously very different from the ones we have now) that were indeed hazardous, and women were strictly forbidden from using them.
Public toilets specifically for women were not introduced until the Victorian era in the UK.
(Assume same in America am prepared to be corrected)

Here's an interesting article
www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/womens-right-work-toilet-bathroom-victorian-london-wwi-factory-protest

The Victorian era in the UK saw some of the first public toilets for women only, but many were burned down by men.

Women were expected to stay close to home or refrain from drinking/eating if outside of the home.

During the suffragette movement, women found it very hard to stay outside protesting all day with no access to public loos, so the few public places such as Selfridges on Oxford Street provided a safe refuge for women during the early feminist revolution.

Absolutely on no circumstances were public loos mixed sex until then.
Even after women's loos were introduced, a "proper lady" would be assumed to be too embarrassed to walk into one.

^ Absolutely on no circumstances were public loos mixed sex until then.

Whoops sorry rephrase
Absolutely on no circumstances were public loos available to women, they were for men only until the late Victorian era

It was the 1850s, women marched in the streets to fight for their own toilets. I'll dig up an article but the first ones were in Camden.

Later than that - www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/History-of-Womens-Public-Toilets-in-Britain/

Ok I got more information.
There are single sex toilets in other blocks at the school, most however are locked and theres one where it's occupied by students who are intimidating so no one else goes in.
She going to check doors as she goes through the school today and see how many are open.
I have been messaging the school and asked about toilets, last message I sent was a request that they single sex toilets all be ulocked during the school day so they can be accessed. I see what happens after school.
She also added, they students were told that a lot of money was spent on converting the toilets to GN, and if they proove to be popular, they will convert them all. She says this is why she and her friends refuse to go in them. They want to preserve some toilets as single sex.

Good for her and her friends. I think a coordinated effort between parents and students is in order!

Terrible that they are put in this position.

If they prove to be popular
By locking the doors to other toilets this is not exactly going to be a fair comparison is it?

You have to wonder who's idea it was to lock them. Was it the schools or the "trainers"

I just can’t see how making all loos neutral at school will benefit any girl. My daughter attends an all girls secondary and tells me how often she encounters other girls who are extremely upset in the loos with period issues (caught out on timing with no supplies or with heavier than expected flow and bad cramps). I could not imagine what these girls would do in this situation with boys thrown into the mix.

She also now won’t go to the loo after first break because some of the girls have started to leave the loos for her year in such a mess (apparently there are some girls fascinated by smearing blood in protest to get loos renovated). So now she doesn’t drink water at school and holds on til she gets home.

Surely this reality is not unusual and has to be known by these head teachers and decision makers. Why add more opportunities to make girls feel shame about menstruating to the pile? Why make more girls feel resentful for being female? .... Why indeed?

It's huge safeguarding risk, and actually illegal afaik. That's what needs to be hammered home.

She and her friends refuse to go all day now. She's using a night time pad for her period so she doesn't have to go. Luckily she has light periods

So effectively only the boys have access to toilets at school now - and this is progress? My experience was at primary before they got single sex (before age of 8) many, many girls used to do this - but this is before they have to deal with periods and period shaming etc.

It is a known fact that in developing countries part of the way you ensure access to education for girls is by providing single sex toilets. How the actual fuck has that lesson not been acknowledged here?

I would absolutely allow my daughter to stay off school during her period if they only have mixed sex as I know she would be extremely distressed by the idea of having to deal with menstruation in front of XY children - this is denying girls the human right to access an education. Also, surely some religions require single sex so very religious parents may not allow their children to go to school if only mixed sex provided?

THIS IS AGAINST THE LAW apart from anything else.

I AM SO ANGRY

This misogynistic behaviour by schools is unbelievable. Think back to when you started your first period, would you have wanted to walk past a row of boys clutching your san pro? Would you have wanted them to see your clothing that may have been blood-stained?

It’s utterly abhorrent that girls are being put through what amounts to torture. Have none of these ‘woke’ individuals heard of toxic shock syndrome? I know I’d have done anything rather than used toilets/changed san pro with boys in the next cubicle/ hand-washing area.

Wake the eff up you ‘woke’ idiots!

Troels

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2020/jan/07/uk-teens-refuse-silent-about-periods

A (surprisingly) useful article from the Guardian. States Plan International UK stats on girls missing out on education due to periods and quotes from girls on their discomfort at menstruating at school.

You could ask the school to explain how they have ensured single sex toilets won’t exacerbate the problem.

Many incredible girls out there. Well done to your dd!

Also so what if the school spent a lot of money - that’s their problem- not the girls.

I was eleven when I had my first period. Knew what to expect (thanks mum!) but it was a while before I got swift, skilled and confident dealing with them. Boys then were both fascinated and repelled by menstruation. I would have hated to think I couldn't go somewhere they were NOT allowed to go. But the taboo against going into the girls' loo was strong and it was always female only. One or two utter bitches aside, it was a safe space.

There are single sex toilets in other blocks at the school, most however are locked

I'm really struggling with this. What is the reason they are locking the toilets?

I honestly can't believe it's to 'prove' that the mixed sex are popular. That would be an absolutely disgusting breach of almost every protocol I can think of.

Our poor girls 😕

I know this school very well and the way it has been reported is not fully correct and already puts a stop to most of the arguments put forward. Some of the school toilets have been changed to mixed gender. There are still gender specific toilets available, which are never locked. The ones that have become mixed are individual toilet cubicles, with doors floor to well over 6 foot; these are 5 cubicles, opposite (as in outside the doors 2ft in front) is a trough style sink. This is an open "corridor" which has a camera at the end (there is complete privacy in the cubicle). There is always staff on duty at breaks and lunch as well as before/after school and the toilets are cleaned at least 4 times a day (before school, after break and lunch and afterschool). This has been driven by pupil voice and provides facilities for everyone dependent on their own personal choice and safeguarding is in place. It is a school in a deprived area, which if research was done, you would see amongst many of the support measures as part of period poverty provides sanitary products for all females as needed. The students have not been told all will be converted to gender neutral. Think theres two things here to say: storm in a tea cup and a whole lot of poo stirring.

So what are you saying?

That multiple people are lying all saying the same thing and all suffering the same problems and all simultaneously developed an inability to use a door handle ?

Doesnt add up.

You're right. It doesn't add up. And they are lying. My best friend is a TA there who does lunch duties every day. My daughter and son attend there and I take my little one there for gymnastics after school. But obviously despite all our experiences we're clearly mistaken. Staff use mixed toilets also, and same as students there are also gender toilets available near their staffroom. I'd have thought in this day and age its a step further towards equality and inclusivity, especially when there are still large mixed facilities available!

You had me until " equality and inclusivity" which sadly these days translates to throwing women and girls under a bus.

Why would children lie about something they know nothing about and get no benefit from doing so.

Hundreds of people have signed the petition, they are saying that the boys are gathering around the gender neutral toilets, making it uncomfortable for the girls. And the pupils maintain that it's most of the toilets that are now gender neutral, not a few.

Personally, I wouldn't understand the objection, necessarily, to one or two gender neutral toilets. Because it gives the girls choice. But it needs to be a proper choice. Not a choice that involves traipsing halfway across the campus.