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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender critical autistics / aspies

69 replies

NonnyMouse1337 · 30/12/2019 00:59

As someone on the autistic spectrum / with Asperger's - since I've learned more about trans ideology and read people's experiences, I've become quite worried at the disproportionately high numbers of autistic adults and children that are prone to getting involved in this mindset.

Since autistic people have difficulty picking up on unspoken social norms and socialisation, they are probably less inclined to follow gendered stereotypes or behave in gendered ways that are 'expected' by others. That's pretty awesome on one hand because it can show others how to be yourself and break moulds etc.
On the flip side, it does make you vulnerable since you will have an acute sense of being out of place, not fitting in, find it harder to make friends (especially of the same sex because of the lopsided socialisation) and so on. If you are undiagnosed, this adds another layer of being painfully aware that you are different, but not knowing why.

This vulnerability makes some autistic individuals especially susceptible to transgender ideology. Such a rigid ideology needs to rely on sexist stereotypes and gendered straitjackets to perpetuate itself in society.

It's understandable that autistic children and young adults will feel displaced from their social groups because they are 'not like other girls / boys'. When they discover transgender propaganda online or through their peers which claims that this must mean they actually are a boy or a girl, they might then seize on this simplistic answer as evidence of why they are the way they are and that transitioning will be the solution to all of their personal problems and feelings of social isolation.

Add in other issues like discomfort with one's body, sensory problems with clothing, trauma, bullying, grappling with sexuality, sexual/physical/mental abuse, mental health issues and so on, and it's no surprise that many young autistic people, especially autistic girls, are flocking to an ideology that claims to have all of the answers.

How can we provide a better narrative for the younger generations?

I'm not yet sure.

I suppose a start would be if any women here who are on the autism spectrum would be willing to share some of their experiences growing up; or reasons for why and how they ended up gender critical; or how they reconciled the fact of being a woman with any feelings of disconnection from the socialisation that comes with being female; or how they relate to other women (or not); or how do they cope with the pressure to conform to gendered expectations and so on.

Ultimately, the message I want to get across to autistic girls and women (or anyone who is gender non-conforming, really), is that it's ok to feel conflicted, confused, annoyed or dissatisfied with the gendered ideas and expectations around womanhood, while still accepting the (sometimes harsh) reality that you are a girl / woman and that this won't change, even if you use different labels.

I will share some of my personal experiences in the next post.

If anyone wishes to contribute their views as well, remember to consider how much or little of your personal details you would like to share, since this is a public forum after all.

OP posts:
NonnyMouse1337 · 30/12/2019 01:03

PART 1: CHILDHOOD

Warning: mention of suicide ideation

I don't know how to articulate my views on gender, autism, womanhood etc without going through my entire experience of growing up without any diagnosis or support, so I guess that's what I will do. I apologise for how long my post is, but this is the first time that I am trying to link all the different strands of my life together to show that 'being trans' doesn't have to be the only option. You can make it through to the other side of a rough journey in figuring out who you are and your place in this world without needing to invoke gender identity ideology.

I'll start off by saying that I've always struggled to feel solidarity or a sense of companionship with other women. From reading and listening to other women, there's a sense of some overarching sisterhood that many intuitively feel and cherish, and yet it's not something I've felt in my interactions with women in general. I don't tend to seek out the company of women, I don't usually feel comfortable in the company of women and I might even go out of my way to avoid the company of women at times.

I come from a very gendered culture. As a child, I always resented the expectation by adults around me that I should automatically sit and interact with other women and girls, simply because I was one too. I couldn't understand why I wasn't allowed to pick where I wanted to sit based on which conversations or people interested me more.
When in social gatherings, the men and boys gravitated to one area of the house - usually in the living room or outside. I had to follow my mother to hang out with the other women in the group - usually in the kitchen while they cooked and prepared meals for the party. Even if I found the conversation in the men's group more interesting and funny (they talked about science, politics or made rude jokes - all of which I enjoyed), I was expected to go play with the other girls or sit with my mum and listen to the women's conversations. The girls all wanted to play with dolls or have some sort of social play like imaginary tea parties, while I was content to sit by myself and colour or read about dinosaurs and other animals. I tired of their company very quickly and they most likely tired of mine. Sitting among the women, I had to listen to them talk about cooking, TV shows, their children, their feelings, their awful husbands and in-laws - I couldn't care about any of this at that age.

As I've gotten older, (and I've lived in three different countries and cultures) whenever I find myself in mixed sex social groups, I notice the men and women still tend to gravitate into separate conversations, especially if there are several pairs of couples. I suppose that's understandable, but I still feel a twinge of annoyance that I'm also expected to conform to this unspoken norm, but I guess that's my childhood feelings bubbling to the surface.

I feel the anxious dread as the men and women separate into groups and I try to smile and perform a role in making small talk, while drinking alcohol quickly to ease the stress. I've gotten better over the years but still struggle to find a way to bond with other women over polite chit chat. Once I run out of questions to ask according to the 'scripts' I have in my head, I'm at a loss. I get a strong sense I'm expected to participate in certain topics or reciprocate in certain ways to what they say, but I don't know what those things are or I don't feel a desire to do so.

It is easier to deal with larger groups as I eventually slide across to the men's side because there's enough women to keep the conversation going and I can disengage from the small talk.
For reasons which I now understand is due to being autistic, I prefer to listen rather than talk (although listening is also quite hard in noisy environments), and I find this easier to do when among men because they ignore me and carry on talking with one another, and I can watch and listen as an outsider (and zone out when I need to). They probably think I am shy, weird or stupid, but will indulge me with their stories and jokes and aren't terribly interested in what I have to say, which works very well in this context. I can give the appearance of socialising without actually doing anything.

Come to think of it, I don't feel solidarity with any kind of group. I don't seek out the company of people based on my ethnic and cultural background since I tend to like someone's company based on other criteria. I'm also a mix of ethnic groups so I've always been a misfit in various ways and have gotten comfortable being an outsider no matter where I am or who I'm with.
I realise it's nice to share things in common and there's a shared understanding and solidarity if you have had similar socialisation or cultural upbringing. And I do feel it occasionally, but I wish it's something I felt often or more strongly. It would have made my life easier. I tend to live mostly in my head and need very little human interaction, although I love online exchanges as they stimulate my mind.

Anyway, I digress....

Another thing that really pissed me off as a child is when the adults, especially the women, expected me to play and look after any toddlers and infants there. I couldn't stand babies and children then and still don't. It was the assumption that because I was a girl, I had to gush over babies and be enthusiastic about interacting with them, even though I had no desire to do so, that enraged me. The boys were never asked to do these things. I was always fuming at the obvious differences in what boys and girls were allowed to do and what was expected of them.

I never came across anyone - child or adult - who openly expressed the same frustrations that I had. I would get laughs and condescending comments that I'd change my mind one day and desire children and marriage, which only served to make me more stubborn about it. I had endured listening to enough women's conversations to know marriage (and the norms dictated by society and religion) was a pretty shit deal for females. That the same women would then turn around and endorse marriage as some inevitable life goal left me dumbfounded at the stupidity of adults. How could they not make the connection?!

My mum though, for better or worse, always moaned about men and warned against getting married and that it was important to be financially independent and how women always got stuck with the shit end of any deal. I did think she was being a bit over the top at times (don't be alone with any boy or man) but her underlying message stuck with me because I could see the truth in it, and as I've gotten older I've understood better how some men can be predators and avoiding being alone with a male, especially if you feel uncomfortable for whatever reason, can be a good idea.

However, my mum did have very entrenched gendered expectations as well and made it obvious she was disappointed in me as a daughter. Never one to mince her words. I loved soft animal toys and really hated human looking dolls with their creepy faces and bulging eyes. It was a sensory thing though I didn't know it then. She would keep buying dolls for me and when I would cry with disappointment or refuse to play with them, she would berate me for not being like other girls, how every girl loves dolls, she loved playing with dolls at my age, other girls loved it when their mothers bought them dolls, and I was being silly and abnormal.

I absolutely hated frilly dresses. They were horrendously itchy and drove me mad. I much preferred jeans and T-shirts and clothing that was comfortable and practical. I also hated trying to maintain long hair. It got in my face, it always managed to get into knots that were painful to untangle, I had to comb and look after it properly. Shorter hair was so much better and so that's the style I tried to maintain. This drew further criticism from my mother because girls loved dresses and enjoyed looking pretty and feminine, not scruffy. Long hair was beautiful and when she was my age, she and her sister had such long hair down to their knees and they would comb and plait it. Again I was repeatedly told I was abnormal because I wouldn't conform and participate in the gendered activities she wanted in her 'ideal' daughter. My mother loved to compare me with her childhood or other mother-and-daughter relationships in her social circle.

I wouldn't really interact with other children or adults. Making eye contact was awful and I didn't really know what I was supposed to do when I looked into someone's eyes (still don't). I was painfully shy and anxious and always found my own company much more interesting than being around other people. So I was labelled abnormal by mum because I didn't form friendships with lots of other children and be loud and exuberant like them. I would even go mute at times and not really say anything to anyone. My behaviour singled me out in social groups, and my mum despised it because it singled her out too when she desperately wanted to fit in. Other adults routinely asked her what was wrong with me, questioned her parenting or lectured her.
Autism was unheard of back then, and any kind of mental illness or mental developmental issue carries great stigma in South Asian communities. Looking back, I suppose I did come across as 'mentally retarded' in some ways as they would have called it back then. I was super fussy about food, couldn't stand close physical contact like hugging, wouldn't express emotional attachment or affection (other than with animals or my toys), I would get tired quickly when outside or around people and end up sleeping a lot or crying with frustration and fatigue but unable to verbalise it, I rarely talked to people other than my parents, I had exceptional reading abilities and was very knowledgeable on subjects I liked but struggled greatly in school and routinely failed maths and other languages..... The list is endless.....

My mum probably dreamt of a perfect life like the romance novels she read in her youth. Instead she ended up with a philandering douchebag for a husband and a retard for a daughter.
I bore the full weight of her frustration and anger and disappointment for my entire childhood and adolescence.

Why can't you be like other children and play with them?

What kind of girl are you?

You're such an idiot / retard. You just sit there, like you're dumb. Open your mouth and speak. And look at me when I'm talking to you!

Everyone keeps asking about you. You think they don't notice how abnormal you behave?

Why can't you eat properly? Everyone asks if I'm feeding you properly. Look how skinny you are!

What an abnormal daughter I gave birth to!

Abnormal. Weird.

Not like other girls.

A disappointment.

If I was not like other girls, what was I, then?

And why did boys have it so much better and didn't have to abide by these rules and expectations? I wish I could be a boy. I'm definitely not good at being a girl.

Hot tears spreading across my pillow at night as I felt the anguish of knowing I was a disappointment to my parents. (I did wonder if my dad might have wanted a son.) The rejection of a child by her mother is something I will never be able to adequately capture into words. The searing pain seals itself deep in your memory, like a cattle branding. REJECT. It is something I will carry with me all my life.

OP posts:
NonnyMouse1337 · 30/12/2019 01:06

PART 2: ADOLESCENCE

Warning: mention of suicide ideation

Adolescence only ramped up my growing frustration for being female in a male dominated world and my inability to effortlessly slide into female social circles. It was all about boys and makeup and clothes and looking desirable and feminine. I liked boys too and wanted to look pretty, but hadn't a clue on how to go about it. No YouTube videos back then. (I also started to realise I was feeling a sexual attraction towards girls, or rather an arousal towards women's bodies and crushes on female teachers, and this truly scared me because I thought I might be turning into a lesbian and the Bible said that homosexuality was an abomination. It would be many years later before I learned there was something called bisexuality.)

My mother was a devout Jehovah's Witness so my clothing (among other things) was monitored. It had to be modest, at least in public and around other JWs. I was not allowed to socialise with boys in case Satan would lead me astray via 'fornication'.

I loved reading about science and technology. I'd read encyclopedias the way people read novels. I watched documentaries. All of my hobbies were very solitary. I had no idea how to make friends (and still don't) but surprisingly, I found myself befriended by a group of girls at school. I enjoyed their company immensely, but there was always this.... disconnection. I never wore or experimented with makeup because I couldn't stand anything on my face. I found a lot of 'girly' clothing and shoes too tight and uncomfortable. However, I did try. I desperately wanted to fit in and all the girls around me seemed to be effortlessly picking up the roles of pretty girls and womanhood, while I was like the one person who showed up late without a manual and was blundering her way through it all in an effort to catch up. I frequently switched back and forth from trying to look girly and feeling very awkward about it, to wearing dark, dull, and baggy clothing as I found myself hating femininity and the things it stood for.

Those turbulent teen years were very dark times. I was struggling with subjects at school and failing them. I was very depressed and regularly wishing I was dead. I was a vortex of anger, frustration, pain and despair. I absolutely hated my mother for her constant taunts and humiliations. First I was criticised for being skinny; then I was criticised for being fat and weak. And dark skinned. Always comments about my skin. Nothing was ever good enough. Everything about me was wrong. Everyone else (at least superficially) seemed to have perfect, loving families apart from me. I knew I was different. I knew I didn't fit in. I'd spend hours in bed crying at night.
I wanted so desperately to be NORMAL. To like the same things all the other girls liked. To have that easy rapport and camaraderie. To not seem bothered by the unfairness and limitations imposed on us by our culture. To be able to accept that marriage and motherhood was inevitable and inescapable and even to look forward to it.
At the same time, I knew normal was something that I couldn't be. I was cursed to be born, not just a girl, but a shit one at that. Not content to know her place like the others. Always questioning, always angry.

I hated men for their naked contempt and oppression of women. I used to love reading National Geographic magazines and Reader's Digest. I still remember the day I picked up a Reader's Digest and read the harrowing account of a woman who survived FGM as a child and all the resulting issues in her life as an adult. I cried so much. I cried at how cruel human beings are to each other in the name of tradition. I cried at what is inflicted on girls, even by their own mothers, based on men's notion of purity and sexuality. I cried at the horrifying realisation that I was also stuck in this paradigm. I cried as the overriding question kept repeating itself in my mind - 'Why? Why do men hate us so much? What did we ever do to deserve being treated like this?'.

I also started to feel hostile and incredibly angry at the women around me for their simpering subservience with a shrug of shoulders and a 'well that's how things are', 'men are like that, what can you do', 'it's our culture, we're not like those Westerners'... Once I was asked something about marriage and children by a friend of my mother. I think I must have replied that I was not going to have children nor get married. She laughed and said something along the lines of 'your parents are going to have trouble finding you a husband with such an attitude'. I was livid.

I wanted to scream, punch, burn the whole world down with my rage. How can all these women just sit there and make excuses? What was the point of having an education and a job? Why are they so invested in other people's opinions when those same people (especially the men) wouldn't give a shit if they suffered?

Femininity and feminine ideals came to symbolise everything that was wrong with this system to me.
I wasn't allowed to experiment with make-up or clothing when younger because religion and culture dictated that I shouldn't dabble in anything that could have a sexualising effect. (Those corrupting Western influences!) But as I got older and rejected femininity in more obvious ways, I was quickly hauled aside and told that I should start wearing a bit of make-up and some more colourful clothing because I was now getting to the age where it was important to make a good impression on the young men in the church.
Ah yes, marriage.... That socially sanctioned institution of prostitution. You're meant to keep your legs tightly shut and be all pure and naive about sex your whole life but as soon as the wedding ceremony is over, you're meant to flip a switch and open your legs wide for some stranger who picked you out for your superficial appearance and your parents' dowry and cater to his every desire. No matter how ugly and insipid the man is, remember, he's done you a big favour by marrying you so you aren't left on the shelf. Fuck that shit.

I was born into a rigged game and I wanted no part of it. If nobody else seemed interested in challenging the status quo - fine; but I was going to find a way to get out or die trying. I actually had a vague plan / promise that I would kill myself if I hadn't succeeded in extricating myself from South Asian society after a set number of years.
I didn't know how I was going to find my freedom, but I knew financial independence was the key.

OP posts:
NonnyMouse1337 · 30/12/2019 01:10

PART 3: ADULTHOOD

Warning: mention of suicide ideation

The meandering and tumultuous road from childhood to adolescence to adulthood is an accumulation of imperceptible changes in how we interpret and understand the world around us.

A lot of what I deeply longed for seemed to hinge on women being able to obtain their financial independence and be able to access security via their own assets.
In an overtly patriarchal system, this can be quite a challenge as I was starting to realise.
Higher education costs a lot of money; with no government loans or grants as viable alternatives, this is inevitably funded by parents, particularly fathers. Which means you are expected to tow a certain line and keep your head down. My parents were relatively broad-minded compared to some others, but still, you don't want to completely piss off the only financial support in your life. It helps to play dumb, meek, docile while thinking of ways to escape the invisible prison you were born into.

There had also been a curious shift. I spent my early adolescence upset that I was 'woman-ing' wrong and if I could just figure out the rules, I'd learn to feel at peace and fit in. By the time I was a young adult, I'd decided that I didn't care if I was 'woman-ing' wrong. I decided that no one could take woman away from me. I was no less of a woman because I had zero interest in motherhood. I was no less of a woman because I didn't always dress well or wear makeup or feel at ease with social expectations of women.
I was never really concerned about others' opinions of me, or rather, it was fairly low down my list of priorities; however, now I figured that people's opinions and judgements about me mattered not a jot in the grand scheme of things. I had no fucks left to give to society.

This was a terrible transformation from the South Asian perspective. We are very obsessed with our standing in community and how we are perceived by others - shame, honour, reputation, all that jazz. Some of my behaviour was typical growing up stuff and a developing sexuality, while other behaviour seemed indicative of nascent feminist and atheist leanings.
My mother fretted at a daughter who seemed to dig her heels in in terms of rejecting motherhood when other young women were showing signs of the opposite as they got older. I would let my hair grow out for a while, but eventually I'd get antsy and have it cut short - mum would get upset every time but I did it anyway. I still wouldn't wear makeup (although I struggled with all the widespread negativity against darker skin so used bleaching creams and whiteners in a desire to look 'fair'). I was chatting to lots of men on the internet and my mum tried to find ways to stop me from making poor decisions - thankfully no webcam on the computer back then or who knows what pictures would be circulating on the internet!!
I was getting more vocal and rebellious of authority because I deeply despised the sexist society I lived in - at one point in college I was reprimanded by a female lecturer who lived in the same hostel as I did for not wearing the right kind of clothing. Men were found to be spying on us in the hostel so the obvious solution is to instruct all the young women to wear long, modest clothing. I refused. My shorts only went as far as my knees and didn't cover my lower legs. I didn't see why I was the one who had to cover my legs when it was the men outside who were spying on us that were the problem. Not a heroic stance in the slightest, but enough to have the senior warden and my mum involved for my non-compliance (ok maybe I was a bit rude in my retort).
I would wear tight and revealing clothing when my parents weren't around, flouted social conventions, secretly started dating a guy - trying to live a double life of a modest, religious girl while being utterly sick of the sexist double standards and wanting to be free in every manner possible, especially sexually.

What would people think? is a mantra that controls our behaviour and actions, and I was fed up with it.
I was not like other girls.... yet at the same time I was. I was catching up in some ways... yet in other areas I was far behind. I was starting to feel comfortable with my body and with being female but at times still felt irritated with and alienated from other women and idealised notions of womanhood. Lurching towards self-acceptance, recoiling with self-hatred. It would still take a few more years to reach an equilibrium and nuanced understanding of myself, the patriarchal ideas of womanhood, and an awareness that my neurology is not 'typical'.

Rather than squeezing myself into carefully labelled boxes, I decided to throw away the boxes altogether and spread out comfortably. I found ways to work with myself rather than against. It's had some surprising results.
I still keep my hair relatively short, but don't feel an overwhelming dread or angst if it grows out a bit longer - I think it can even look nice at times.
I have never worn make-up for any job I've had. The vast majority of the time my face is untouched, but these days I enjoy using eye liner and eye shadow, maybe even a bit of lipstick and foundation on some occasions. It's like playing a role or getting into character. I find it fun to look different from my usual self.
Similarly with clothes - I often wear loose, comfortable clothing and sensible shoes, but I enjoy occasionally dressing up. It's like putting on a costume or persona rather than an internal pressure to look a certain way all the time. I can enjoy stereotypical 'feminine' things without feeling like it would permanently define or undermine me in some way and similarly for stereotypical 'masculine' things. I wear and do what I like without wondering or worrying if I'm allowed to do it. We are not bound by physical laws and sexist stereotypes are not set in stone. Gender is a prison we have constructed for ourselves to police what we and others can and cannot do as women and men. It is important that we set ourselves free of these loaded expectations and societal norms. Women (and men) come with all sorts of personalities, traits and interests. The only enduring feature we have in common as females irrespective of time and place is our biology, because we belong to the homo sapiens species. There are physical limits because of this biology - on average we will be smaller and less strong than males. Grave injustices have been committed and continue to be committed on us individually and collectively because of this - women are controlled, coerced, intimidated, systemically disadvantaged and punished by men because ultimately they can easily overpower us and they can use our reproductive capability for their benefit - either for sexual gratification or breeding progeny. No amount of ignoring or pretending or changing of labels or identities will stop this. The numerous issues tied to our biology have to be confronted directly no matter how unpleasant the reality.

I am so glad that I was able to grow up without gender ideology. I dread to think what might have happened to me today. I could have easily imagined myself to be trans or non-binary and subjected my healthy body to disastrous and permanent alterations. My discomfort and distress and hatred around hair and clothing, the pressures and expectations on females and their bodies - my body, along with my affinity for 'stereotypical masculine' interests and lack of maternal instincts would have been viewed by myself and others as a divine sign that I was a man. It might even have been my mother who would have taken me to an 'expert' and confirmed her suspicions that I was a boy and not a girl.
No one today would have bothered to look at my poor mental health, my abusive upbringing, my autism and sensory issues, my despair and anger of growing up female in a male dominated society along with the general adolescent angst that comes from moving from childhood to adulthood and figuring out who you really are. I'm relieved I was able to take my time to figure myself out and it upsets me greatly that young people today aren't given this opportunity.
I don't know much about child psychology and development, but it has been said that although physical development stops in late adolescence, mental development continues well into early adulthood. Something does mentally shift along the way in early adulthood, which is why I think many detransitioners are emerging in this age range and why it is so, so important for children to experience and undergo a normal, healthy adolescence without medical interference. We must not play god with our evolution. Puberty and adolescence is what turns us into fully functioning adults. This isn't an optional side plot in the story of our lives. This is a crucial developmental stage that shapes our intellect, our sexuality and our ability to form bonds and relationships. The long-term and unintended consequences could be disastrous and it's appalling that politicians and medical establishments are pushing ahead with no robust studies or analysis into the booming numbers of children, especially girls, in this transgender contagion.

I won't say my life is smooth sailing. There's so much more that I haven't covered and although I am far happier and accepting of myself in my late thirties, I still struggle with my personal demons. I was only recently officially diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum. If there's very little support for autistic children, there's absolutely none for adults. It's like people think autism is something that only children get and it vanishes once you are 18 and thrown out into the wider world. I've found various ways to cope over the years and I'm learning to pay attention to my limits and when my mental health starts declining under the stresses of life and work.

I suspect, though I haven't had the strength to pursue an official diagnosis yet, that I might have some sort of body dysmorphia. I hate having my picture taken and I avoid looking at myself in mirrors. I can be 'triggered' if I see any photo of myself and quickly descend into a deep loathing and suicide ideation that lasts for days because there's so much about my body that still causes me deep distress. It takes a lot of willpower to not visit cosmetic surgery clinics because I know I could easily spend all my earnings and savings on all sorts of procedures to change my appearance. If I was given the opportunity to swap my body and face with ones I consider to be 'better' I would do so in a heartbeat.
I struggle to maintain a healthy relationship with food and can binge as a way to sabotage and punish myself. I get obsessive about certain tastes and textures and find it hard to stop eating.
I also have times when I feel upset because of a lingering voice that I'm not 'woman-ing' well and I find myself envious of women who seem good at this - the ones who are always well dressed for any occasion. They turn up every day at work looking pretty with carefully matched outfits and accessories, while I struggle with basics like everything related to keeping down a job and I wear the same clothes everyday for about a week because I don't like change and can't think of what else to wear in the mornings. I'm envious when I see that easy rapport and camaraderie between women and I feel sad to know it's something I will never understand.

I don't share these personal problems for pity. It's so that people realise that life can be hard for many of us and there's not something unique about 'being trans' that makes the pain and discomfort about their bodies and identities more distressing than anyone else who might be disabled, or struggling with their body and mental health.
Self-acceptance is difficult and a continuous, lifelong process. Just like you have to eat well and exercise regularly to maintain your physical body, you have to find methods to regularly ground yourself in reality and bridge the gaps in how you perceive yourself or how you wish you could be. It's a continuous process because it's easy to slip back and lose ourselves when things go wrong or those inner demons rear their ugly head as we are struggling with other stresses.
If I had jumped on the trans or non-binary bandwagon, it would have done nothing to address the numerous underlying issues that have influenced my perspective of myself and my body.

There really needs to be sufficient funding put into mental health support and adequate staffing so that everyone can access the help they need. Too many people fall through the cracks or have to wait months to get a few precious sessions with a counsellor or therapist.
I hope more autistic young people can be given the opportunity to discuss their anxiety and problems without being pushed into an ideology that might only superficially ease their worries, or possibly even exacerbate their struggles. They deserve the chance to be happy with their healthy bodies and know that they don't have to choose between narrow stereotypes.

It is impossible to change our biological sex. We arrive with one body and one life on our brief time on this planet. You don't have to believe in lies to find ways of feeling more comfortable in expressing your personality. Grow your hair long or cut it short or even shave it all off. Wear the clothes you like. Pursue the hobbies that interest you. Embrace same-sex attraction if you feel it. You don't need the label of trans or non-binary to give yourself permission to be different.

OP posts:
QueQueQue · 30/12/2019 01:16

Place marking for tomorrow when I've not had a drink 🙈
My son has Aspergers and identifies as transgender

QueQueQue · 30/12/2019 01:19

Sorry just read the full OP and realised this is aimed at females only

Crake · 30/12/2019 08:32

The diagnostic process for gender dysphoria is quite long and rigorous.
It involves meeting psychiatrists for assessment several times over a couple of years.
Also, I think if under 18 the maximum medical intervention would be puberty blockers. So, no surgeries or anything irreversible.
I'd like to ask you a question, you mentioned body dysmorphia, do you like and enjoy your female body characteristics?
Because that all sounded a bit like an Ophelia diatribe, and I wonder if the lady doth protest to much...

Crake · 30/12/2019 08:43

P.S. I'm autistic, have a couple of friends who have been though the GIC assessment process.
Some came out with treatment, some just feeling better about themselves.
The more I look at it philosophically, the less I think I know about gender.
I remember when feminism wanted to abolish societally imposed differences between men and women...

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/12/2019 08:59

Thanks for this, OP. I'd like to read it properly again when I have time. I have a daughter on the spectrum and I am so thankful gender ideology wasn't mainstream when she was young.

Crake, in the US now there is no lengthy assessment process and activists are pushing for the same here. Puberty blockers have long-lasting side effects. Cross-hormones are started at 16, I believe, and the effects are irreversible. The very limited research studies done show that almost all children who get puberty blockers then go on to cross-hormones. The clinics argue that this shows what a good job they do selecting children who really are trans but in earlier years over 80% of dysphoric children and teens desisted once through puberty and so took no drugs at all.

drspouse · 30/12/2019 09:03

Puberty blockers are not reversible - in that nobody ever goes off them and goes back to their sexed puberty.

NonnyMouse1337 · 30/12/2019 09:10

Sorry QueQueQue I fell asleep last night. The posts are fairly long winded so obviously not expecting people to read it all in one go (or even at all!).

I did start the thread from the angle of women and girls, but that's not to say there couldn't be some overlap or commonality with autistic men. Since I'm not a man, I don't have any specific insight on whether there might be other factors involved (like AGP) and there are different pressures on either sex growing up.

Certainly encouraging young people to express themselves how they wish and to realise that they don't have to feel constrained by stereotypes or societal pressure to conform will help autistic men as well as women. To not rush into life changing decisions and give themselves time to explore their personality and preferences, to honestly explore what might be underlying any anxiety or distress they might have about their bodies etc. Adolescence is a scary time for everyone, but can be especially difficult for autistic people.

I'd like to keep the overall focus on girls and women, but feel free to contribute anything you think might add to the discussion in terms of your son. Did he express frustration and confusion because he didn't gravitate towards the interests typical of other boys his age or felt excluded / bullied by his peers?

OP posts:
littlbrowndog · 30/12/2019 09:13

Thanks nonny for taking time and work to write this 👏

rocketmen · 30/12/2019 09:13

I'm autistic (Aspergers is a terrible term and shouldn't be used - it was coined by a nazi and functioning labels don't help anybody, all they do is 'other' people) and I'm non-binary. It's not because I was traumatised or bullied, I just am.

rodgmum · 30/12/2019 09:39

Crake That is simply not an accurate description of what is currently happening in the UK. Diagnosis is generally after 3-6 hourly sessions approx one month apart. Hormones (I.e. testosterone for girls) is available from 16. There are serious questions about whether puberty blocker have irreversible effects- e.g. studies show they impact bone density and there are concerns over brain development. Blockers are effectively experimental treatment.

As the mother of a 14 year old daughter who recently announced she was a boy, many people initially tried to paint a similar picture that the NHS takes a slow considered path, but as soon as we were put on that path, it quickly became clear that it was not reality. The NHS follows a medicalised approach and does not look at and explore possible underlying factors. I tried to get a referral for an autism assessment, but as soon as GD was mentioned, the GP ignored me, refusing this, and went straight for the gender clinic referral.

OP, thank you for this thread. I now know so many autistic teen girls (likely including my DD) who want to be boys. They aren’t comfortable with their bodies, they don’t fit in socially, they don’t follow “traditional” gender conventions and this seems to be an easy solution for them.

NonnyMouse1337 · 30/12/2019 09:40

Crake I'm sure you've read the posts here from parents and others so you are well aware that the transgender lobby have pushed hard to ensure gender dysphoria is no longer a necessary criteria for being labelled as trans and that the entire diagnostic process is not as rigorous as it used to be in the past.

The steep rise in numbers means children are assessed over a few sessions with no time to explore in depth what might be underlying their distress.
Social media is extremely damaging as that is where gender ideology spreads among young people and detransitioners speak of how these online spaces can become a place where they obsessively read about gender identity and surgery and are encouraged by their peers and others on what to say at assessments.

Puberty blockers are not reversible. They are the first step in preparation for cross-sex hormones.

Children are not equipped to handle decisions that have long-term and far reaching consequences. Their brains haven't sufficiently matured and predictably jump towards short-term gratification.
Without any medical intervention, 80% will desist.

Anyone with a shred of concern for children should be alarmed at what's happening to them in the name of transgender ideology.

OP posts:
CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 30/12/2019 09:47

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CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 30/12/2019 09:48

What makes you non binary rocketmen?
Liking both boy and girl stereotypes?

rocketmen · 30/12/2019 09:55

Asperger worked on euthanasia programs.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 30/12/2019 10:03

And?
What was he supposed to do, leave the country and let thousands under his care die?
Or work as instructed while making as many children as possible pass the IQ tests, but send the ones who didn't way so he wasn't killed?

What would you honestly have done?

Keep in mind that right now you personally believe not following stereotypes makes you an alternative sex, you have followed this belief without question.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 30/12/2019 10:05

Honestly, I have thought long and hard about Hans Asperger and I'm not sure I wouldn't have done the same as him.

Babdoc · 30/12/2019 10:08

I’m autistic and in my sixties. I thank God that I hit puberty in the late 1960’s and not now.
I identify with large chunks of your experience OP, never fitting in with my female peer group, detesting dollies, dresses, make up, endless whinging about boyfriends, being expected to do all the housework, etc. I was mortified at starting periods and felt they condemned me to be part of a group I did not belong in. I was always happiest in jeans and t shirts and spent my teenage years alone, apart from attending school.
Thankfully, there was no transgender pressure in those days, or I shudder to think where I would be now.
Instead, there was the feminist movement (or Women’s Lib as it was called then!) - and it was my salvation. Far from telling me I was the “wrong gender” or in the “wrong body”, feminism fearlessly addressed the truth- that gender stereotypes were socially imposed nonsense, and I was perfectly justified in rejecting them.
I took science A levels and went to university to study medicine (at a time when many medical schools had a 10% quota for female students). And my first night at uni I met my DH, who was a genuinely non sexist wonderful man, and with whom I finally discovered that my female body was something that could give me mind blowing pleasure (and two wonderful daughters!).
I still struggle with my autism - social anxiety has been a problem all my life - but I have been happy in my female body for decades, knowing that it simply defines my anatomy and biology, and has nothing whatever to do with my cultural expressions, choice of clothing, or anything else.
I fear for the current generation of teenage girls. Their boyfriends’ idea of sex is formed by violent misogynist porn, and who can blame any girl for wanting to “identify out” of that by claiming to be transgender? We need old 70’s feminists to go into schools and talk to these girls urgently, about sexist gender stereotypes, empowerment, and resistance!

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 30/12/2019 10:09

Can I ask if you've actually looked at things in context and tried to understand what was happening at that period in history and choices that were made rocketmen?

Or is it just good guys Vs bad guys to you?

chilling19 · 30/12/2019 10:12

Thank you Nonny. A lot of your post resonated with me. Although not autistic, I too raged against gender stereotypes growing up and could see the unfairness and lack of power from around 14 onwards.

WomanBornNotWorn · 30/12/2019 10:19

Your writing is superb - is it out there, or is this the first time you've shared your experience? If this is your debut, please please get out there because you have a powerful voice in this field that could help so many young people and parents. Thank you for sharing.

sansgender · 30/12/2019 10:23

I'm autistic, will read the OP posts later on when I have more time. I'm in a lot of autistic women's groups on facebook and it amazes me how few of them are openly GC - despite many being GNC. I wonder how many are hiding though because of the risk of social ostracism. I would have thought a strong sense of logic would help prevent this, but the high levels of empathy for other's suffering, and being part of a vulnerable minority themselves doesn't help I guess.

rocketmen · 30/12/2019 10:25

"Keep in mind that right now you personally believe not following stereotypes makes you an alternative sex, you have followed this belief without question."

If you're going to tell me I've said things that I've never said, I'm not engaging with this discussion. I never insulted you personally and you're on the attack because I said I'm non-binary.

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