Gender critical autistics / aspies

[NonnyMouse1337]

As someone on the autistic spectrum / with Asperger's - since I've learned more about trans ideology and read people's experiences, I've become quite worried at the disproportionately high numbers of autistic adults and children that are prone to getting involved in this mindset.

Since autistic people have difficulty picking up on unspoken social norms and socialisation, they are probably less inclined to follow gendered stereotypes or behave in gendered ways that are 'expected' by others. That's pretty awesome on one hand because it can show others how to be yourself and break moulds etc.
On the flip side, it does make you vulnerable since you will have an acute sense of being out of place, not fitting in, find it harder to make friends (especially of the same sex because of the lopsided socialisation) and so on. If you are undiagnosed, this adds another layer of being painfully aware that you are different, but not knowing why.

This vulnerability makes some autistic individuals especially susceptible to transgender ideology. Such a rigid ideology needs to rely on sexist stereotypes and gendered straitjackets to perpetuate itself in society.

It's understandable that autistic children and young adults will feel displaced from their social groups because they are 'not like other girls / boys'. When they discover transgender propaganda online or through their peers which claims that this must mean they actually are a boy or a girl, they might then seize on this simplistic answer as evidence of why they are the way they are and that transitioning will be the solution to all of their personal problems and feelings of social isolation.

Add in other issues like discomfort with one's body, sensory problems with clothing, trauma, bullying, grappling with sexuality, sexual/physical/mental abuse, mental health issues and so on, and it's no surprise that many young autistic people, especially autistic girls, are flocking to an ideology that claims to have all of the answers.

How can we provide a better narrative for the younger generations?

I'm not yet sure.

I suppose a start would be if any women here who are on the autism spectrum would be willing to share some of their experiences growing up; or reasons for why and how they ended up gender critical; or how they reconciled the fact of being a woman with any feelings of disconnection from the socialisation that comes with being female; or how they relate to other women (or not); or how do they cope with the pressure to conform to gendered expectations and so on.

Ultimately, the message I want to get across to autistic girls and women (or anyone who is gender non-conforming, really), is that it's ok to feel conflicted, confused, annoyed or dissatisfied with the gendered ideas and expectations around womanhood, while still accepting the (sometimes harsh) reality that you are a girl / woman and that this won't change, even if you use different labels.

I will share some of my personal experiences in the next post.

If anyone wishes to contribute their views as well, remember to consider how much or little of your personal details you would like to share, since this is a public forum after all.

Op this is an incredibly important thread, thank you and to all contributors.

Good luck to Gingerkittykat , Squeakycheese and others waiting on a formal assessment!

It took me a few years to pluck up enough courage to make a GP appointment and write up a letter that would be attached with my referral. NHS services can be such a lottery and I've read about how it can take so long to get a referral appointment for some women.

I was super stressed about the assessment but the consultant was very nice and calm.

Squeakycheese you're right to point out that autism doesn't have to always have a direct correlation to non-conforming appearance. Having long hair and wearing dresses is also another way to avoid sensory issues and discomfort. It's easy for me to forget about that because I've always found short hair and jeans more pragmatic and haven't worn a dress or skirt that felt super comfortable and easy to move around in. I also have to remember to keep my legs together!

as soon as someone tells me I should or shouldn't like/do/have something, it immediately triggers the opposite reaction
Ah this is so me!!

Apologies that I haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to respond to Nonny's original posts re her story before things move on too much.

Nonny, you write beautifully. I felt engaged with every word and found it so interesting and illuminating. It really encapsulated the need for our gender non-conforming young women to be given the space and time to explore their feelings and associated underlying issues before embarking on any form of transition - either socially or medically.

The trouble is, there doesn't seem to be enough, or even any, space for this within gender clinics or associated counselling services currently.

Our personal experience with our daughter, was that she went from first identifying as non-binary to getting a diagnosis of gender dysphoria well within 12 months. She was signed off for testosterone within another 2 months. How this could happen so quickly, when there was no history, deserves its own examination elsewhere.

I'm sure my daughter does now have gender dysphoria. But it started with dysphoric feelings about her breasts and female body, which is understandable considering the professional ballet training and subsequent injuries that dominated her life from the age of 16.

Her body dysphoria led to her believing she felt like this because she was trans. Adopting a trans identity enabled her to identify out of particularly painful and traumatic experiences associated with her female body and the feminine expectations that had been placed on her. And that she had 'failed' to live up to.

I have never thought she was autistic 'just' highly sensitive and with issues around anxiety and perfectionism that had a profound affect on her ability to 'fit in.' I'm starting to wonder if there may be something more.

Nonny's descriptions of feeling different and isolated from other females resonates very strongly. But this may be a universal feeling among so many of us.

Navigating what it is to be female, a woman, feminine, a daughter, a girlfriend, wife, mother, is so very hard. Especially now, with the scrutiny of social media and infiltration of porn culture.

I'm so glad you started this thread Nonny. Thank you for all your effort - it's hard to lay yourself out there and takes a lot of energy and emotion to write it all down.

for those going through this with their DDs at the moment.

One aspect I forgot to mention (and have never mentioned to anyone) is that for years I would spend times inhabiting a fantasy world in my mind (usually as I was going to sleep) and in that fantasy world I was always a man. I can't remember when I started, but it was definitely part of my life when I was 15. I loved being in that fantasy world. I loved being that different person in my imagination.

It was interesting reading your posts OP. Much of your experience resonated with me. The sense of not belonging in the “club” that was women. I detested it. My DM was a SAHM. She had no power. My DF had the bank account and my DM had to ask for money. She waited on him basically, like a servant. I found the sense of subservience repulsive. And when relatives and friends came round, yes, the separation of the men and women, the gossiping of the women, talk of recipes and children. The men spoke of politics and were funny. I felt huge rage when my DB andDF would withdraw to the lounge to watch football while I was expected to help my DM in the kitchen.
I hated the normalisation of sexual objectification of women. Growing up in the 70s, TV shows like Benny Hill, Dave Allen, Carry on Films, made women something to be mocked, leered at. Because of their bodies. I hated the changes of puberty. It was as though my body was betraying me, and the deep sense of shame and humiliation was constant.
It was the discovery of feminism through books that turned things around for me. Putting a name to the way women were treated, realising that it was something to be fought, not an inevitable truth was a revelation.
I am not autistic, but my DS is. I think given how I used to feel, and what I see in my son- his fear of change, his sensory issues, his excruciating embarrassment of all mention of things sexual, his need to feel in control. But also his sense of not fitting in, which he is now resigned to, but previously desperately would desperately try to. I think it is so easy to imagine how children with ASD are especially vulnerable to the “born in the wrong body” narrative.

I've worried about the issues Goosefoot describes - am I prone to deferring to authority and then refusing to shift my perspective? I can be stubborn about things once I've made my mind up.
However, like TonOfLeas I also like logic and any reasoning used to justify a position should be consistent and fair. And the more I learned about trans ideology and the lobbying around it, the less sense it made and many aspects were outright unfair. So I had to start questioning the assumptions and gaping holes.

The thread about skeptics and pro-science groups being uncritical of viewpoints outside of their bubble is a really good discussion of how even so called rational people can have their blind spots. We must always be vigilant and question our assumptions and beliefs.

I was never a big fan of deplatforming, but at one point I could see the temptation in shutting down very contentious issues or upsetting viewpoints. I find it tough to engage with people who advocate 'curing' their child's autism using chemical concoctions like bleach or forcing the child to behave 'appropriately' or that vaccinations cause autism.
It's a slippery slope though, so I've come to appreciate the value in open debate no matter how difficult the topic.

She says because she feels like a man. I ask how does she know what a man feels and then I am hating her because I shouldn't challenge what she thinks.

I find it very intriguing that this is the same reaction (and sometimes the same wording) different people exhibit over and over again in this ideology. The moment you ask them how they know or feel that they are a man or a woman, and they get very upset at being asked to describe a subjective experience.

I can understand a child or teenager getting stroppy about it. They are emotionally immature after all and I think it's great that you are challenging your daughter hiredandsqueak. She won't like it in the moment, but hearing alternative viewpoints might plant the seed for critical thinking about her position further down the line.

I don't have much sympathy or patience for the adults who react in such a manner.
I've seen religious people get defensive when their beliefs are challenged, but even they are able to articulate their experience to an extent - when I pray I feel God is in the room with me, I feel a great sense of calmness, I've prayed in despair and suddenly a letter arrived with some money, I felt a protective presence watching over me when I was sick etc etc. They at least have some underlying faith in their position.

The gender identity folk don't seem to have genuine faith in their own ideology. Some of them must realise their reasons are bullshit or not actual reasons at all. Hence the sudden anger and upset when asked to justify themselves.

What a great thread Nonny! Thank you for sharing your experience.

My DD aged 11 has autism and has started puberty, although has told me adamantly that she will never get a period. I think the more of a 'woman' she becomes the more anxious and stressed she will become, she can't open up to me about anything, she just doesn't have the vocabulary to describe or recognise her own emotions.

She is really struggling in her first term at school. She is on Head of Year Report, has been getting detentions at least a couple of times a week, often refuses to go to school so is late all the time, and the worst - much to my shame - she has become a bully. It is so distressing. Rewind back a year to primary school, and she hated the thought of defying authority (not mine, sadly!) and was very conscientious when it came to doing homework, towing the line and respecting authority. She was bullied in primary school, but didn't understand that she was being bullied. She doesn't recognise truths as being hurtful, for example. So will say someone is 'fat' to their face.

I just don't know what this is about... Puberty and hormones play a part for sure. And then I think, like others have alluded to, a sense of being an outsider, desperately wanting to fit in and be liked...

I don't think my response is much to do with the OP, perhaps, but puberty + autism seem to not mix so well.

Don't have ASD, but as a child I rejected "girly" things - never liked dresses or dolls, etc. But I did, at times, have my hair long, or short, or shaved at one point.
DD is ASD and alsy isn't "girly". She was bought dolls but never played with them, never wore a dress or skirt as soon as she was old enough to choose.
However, there is no way she would ever trans. To her, the difference between males and females is very black and white. She does eyeroll about her friends at school many of whom seem to be non-binary, asexual, etc.

Hi, I'm in the same boat. I've made an autism blog where I platform autistic voices including gender critical autistics. Neuro Poppins - Auntie Autism
https://auntieautism.wordpress.com/

There is also a GC Autistic group on fb

I've always hated the colour orange! It hurts my eyes.

In my Autistic Interviews I ask questions about gender etc. Here's one of the interviews with a Gender Critical Autistic. I've included a link to the interview.

Here a quote from the interview:
Are you cis/hetero/LGBTQIA+ or Other? (Do you like/dislike these terms?)

I am heterosexual although I have always been mistaken for homosexual by other people, mainly because I am gender non-conforming and have a lot of character traits and interests that are more commonly associated with gay men. I have been described as “gay in everything but sexuality” or occasionally as “Metrosexual”. I feel that the strengthening of stereotypes and identity labels in society has only intensified this problem for me. I dislike identity labels and am strongly opposed to the TQIA+ part of the acronym, for this is nothing to do with sexuality and is merely a set of identity labels built on a pseudoscience founded on misogyny and homophobia. The TQIA+, or ‘trans ideology’, is little more than a cult and is having a detrimental effect on Autistic people everywhere, as Autistic people seem particularly susceptible to being groomed into this cult. I feel that had it been around when I was younger, I would very likely have fallen victim to it.

What does gender & gender expression mean to you?

I see ‘gender’ as an unscientific idea that has been used to build a religious cult around. Biological sex is real and immutable, and biological categories such as ‘man’ and ‘woman’ are necessary for our understanding of objective reality. ‘Gender’ is little more than a set of stereotypes about biological sex that has been used to form the pseudoscientific, homophobic and misogynistic idea of ‘gender identity’, the idea that each person has a ‘gendered soul’ that is separate from their biological reality. This has caused anyone who deviates from the stereotypes of biological sex – i.e. anyone who is ‘gender non-conforming’ – to be told their deviation from stereotypes makes them ‘trans’ and thus encouraged to identify as the opposite sex or something in between, and in many cases, to undergo expensive, mutilating, harmful and irreversible surgery which in no way helps their mental condition. People should be allowed to express as they wish without being told that non-conformity to stereotypes literally makes them the opposite sex; this only reinforces stereotypes and encourages misogyny and homophobia. I think the idea of ‘gender’ needs to be abandoned outright and treated as the unscientific belief that it is.

auntieautism.wordpress.com/2024/03/28/autistic-interviews-19-joe-s/

As for the rest of your post, I agree that the logic of GC beliefs might be a good approach to take with autistic young people, all those I've met are extremely logical. And facts are always best.

@NonnyMouse1337 thanks for sharing your story, I'm sorry that your parents didn't treat you the way they should have. And I agree with pps that you're an excellent writer.

I’m autistic and if anything I find it hard to understand how so many autistic people buy into gender ideology when it’s clearly not based on facts or science. I am happy to respect the right of others to believe whatever they want, whether that’s religious belief, political belief, or whatever, I don’t go out of my way to offend or engage in conflict with people, and I will happily respect everyone’s personal preferences in how they like to be addressed and positively welcome diverse joyous unconventionality in people i meet - but I have a lifelong aversion to lies and compelled speech. This is true of many autistic people I know - so how do they reconcile that with belief in gender ideology (by which i mean the belief that trans people ‘become’ their chosen sex via a sort of transubstantiation process and that disputing this is ‘heresy’, as opposed to the belief that trans people deserve respect and to live free from harassment, which I think we can all agree with).

Can't recommend this article enough. It really gets into beliefs and dissects the ideology one piece at a time
https://www.philosophersmag.com/essays/321-the-transgender-rights-issue?fbclid=IwAR1Dkx1B2GSi8zmNF0pGG-hgzyoMrHLtHYuFAfGKdFP-89K0I3dfTWCKUk0

I have an autistic 12yo DD and through luck, rather than planning on my part, it's been extremely smooth sailing and she seems very well balanced on the gender issue despite not being very "girly". I was horrified when gender identities blossomed all over our primary school when she was 6yo, including her class. However, she was still an age where she trusted me to help her navigate the world, so she has grown up with it as something some people believe because it gives them comfort, but not objectively true in any way (like all the different religions in her class, or the parent that is a herbalist). I think the reason that ASD teens fall so hard into it is that they are presented with it for the first time at an age where you are looking away from your parents, trusting your peers or the person that seems to understand you on line. Interestingly, my DH who is also ASD, was sucked into a totally crazy church in his teens for a few years, for which I think there are parallels.

I also disagree with, although this is a little controversial, the current narrative around parenting ASD children to avoid anything that stresses them at all costs, even if that means no school or social activities ever but to allow unlimited screen time. I am in a number of groups and have seen this all over the place, even on here. I know everyone is different, but it seems so short-termist (I do understand doing something not ideal in an emergency as well). I'm the adult who can see the bigger picture and I know she is happier with a fuller life, with friends and interests, even if something is hard at the start - so we might prepare more or approach differently rather than avoid. I think people whose world is small and who end up living mostly on line are particularly vulnerable to GI and that the current approach to parenting exacerbates that risk for ASD kids.

Sport in particular, we need to stop writing off ASD kids because they might have a steeper learning curve in terms of co-ordination, being stressed by the new environment etc. we need to teach all kids that sport is great for its own sake and not only about winning or being naturally great straight away. We probably need more specialist coaching or groups.

It has made the world of difference to my DD to surround herself with sporty girls, the first big event she qualified for was eye opening as she kept pointing out how nobody was wearing make up, nobody had straightened their hair or dressed fancy, nobody was on their phone, nobody was pouting or posing for selfies.... she was in a sea of girls with pony tails and joggers who had amazing strong bodies they were comfortable with and felt so at home. This has given her a sense of where she fits that isn't on line, and I'm so grateful for it.

We are here through luck rather than planning (I would never have planned to be talking about being born in the wrong body at 6)! It might go wrong now with puberty, who knows, but she has definitely not been sucked in yet and her school is absolutely full of it.

@LittleLittleRex I also have a 12 year old with ADHD and some autistic tendencies. I don't really worry about him but my DD who is not into all the girl stuff, so I'm trying to inoculate her. She's 9 and so far thinks I'm sensible.

I completely agree re not sheltering our children. I am a huge fan of ADHD Dude, the SPACE anxiety treatment programme (spacetreatment.net) and you'd think I was feeding poison to my DS. I recently had a phone call with a provider of mentors for ND children and she said "well we're very well versed in low demand parenting" and I had to say "we don't do that, we demand things of our DS".

Hi everyone, I'm Neuro Poppins and I have been trying to raise gender critical autistic voices. I have been creating infographics to help spread our voices to help show other autistic ppl that it is OK and normal to not believe in gender ideology.

Feel free to share my infographics if you like them, I have plenty more on my Facebook and other platforms. You can easily find me by searching Neuro Poppins.

Feel free to follow me or send friends requests x

Hope you are all well x