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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I mean... yes, that's the point

104 replies

Bagger288 · 21/12/2019 10:59

Honestly. These people are so open minded their brains have fallen out. That's the entire point we're trying to make!!

I mean... yes, that's the point
OP posts:
TiredofthisBS · 21/12/2019 17:00

What about the survivors of sexual abuse? People who can not be around men. They are now excluded from women's services and spaces because we are not allowed to assert our right to say no to male-bodied people. Being 'Inclusive' is incredibly excluding.

aliasundercover · 21/12/2019 17:01

As it happens these things don't really bother me much. I've always lived in a liberal environment, and I've done activities where people often get changed in mixed sex groups and sleep in mixed sex tents or dorms. I still prefer intimate medical procedures to be done by someone of my sex if possible, though.

However, many women and men are not comfortable with this and that's a reasonable attitude and I think we should respect this.

aliasundercover · 21/12/2019 17:01

Sorry, I wrote that in a rush on my phone. I can see now how clumsily I've expressed myself.

mummyduckduck · 21/12/2019 17:07

Thanks everyone. Good points to consider. I suspect I have been quite sheltered and that's why I asked, as I can see the topic being discussed more frequently.

Final question from my naive self...

Do the concerns relate to all trans-women, or just those that have still got a penis? E.g. is looking like a woman when totally naked more accepted than looking like a man in ladies' clothes?

PurpleHoodie · 21/12/2019 17:09

mummyduckduck

You are a man. Perhaps at best, a young teenager without wisdom.

Women know. Across ALL communities;
Colours. Sexualities. Economies. Creeds.

We know what is safety, and what is not.

mummyduckduck · 21/12/2019 17:11

@PurpleHoodie I'm a woman in my 30s

Kantastic · 21/12/2019 17:13

You are a man. Perhaps at best, a young teenager without wisdom.

Grin I probably shouldn't give them tips but that "walk around with your genitals out" line was a hell of a giveaway.

I wouldn't be inclined to answer this person's questions about acceptable nakedness in the women's changing rooms.

PurpleHoodie · 21/12/2019 17:13

And yet - you have no concept of female safety?

Are you a gilded billionaires daughter? (Don't answer. It's rhetorical)

namechange9357 · 21/12/2019 17:13

People absolutely go around with genitals out in gym changing rooms, I sometimes used to see a woman who liked to put a towel on her hair and blow dry her muff.

DetroitDReindeer · 21/12/2019 17:14

I hear Bunbury is nice this time of year.

Oh look at me being all restrained.

PurpleHoodie · 21/12/2019 17:14

< high fives Kantastic >

PurpleHoodie · 21/12/2019 17:15

< Chants 'Bunbury' > OOOOOOMmmm

ThePurported · 21/12/2019 17:17

'Looking like a woman when naked' isn't really part of the modern gender ideology.
A search for Cotton Ceiling and ladydick should bring up some illuminating threads.
Or you could watch Magdalen Berns videos which are informative as well as funny.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=JkK7zisjoDk

mummyduckduck · 21/12/2019 17:18

Ohh dear, I appear to have found the angry ones.

Thank you to those that took the time to provide useful and informative replies.

I grew up in a very 'live and let live' family; but in a world where it isn't always clear cut how everyone can feel comfortable at the same time, I was looking for some information and opinions before I formed my own.

DetroitDReindeer · 21/12/2019 17:22

Take me down to screenshot city where the genitals are out and the gals are stunning and brave...

Bunbury.

PurpleHoodie · 21/12/2019 17:22

"Angry"

Uh huh. Tick.

Oooommmmmmmm. LOL. You muppet.

InionEile · 21/12/2019 17:27

It's like when TRAs come out with stuff along the lines of:

'Gender is a meaningless social construct and variable across a spectrum, that's the beauty of human diversity, get over it TERFs! Let us express our gender whatever way we want!!'

And I just think:

Yes. We know. Gender is a social construct. That's why we think you're insane for suggesting that a boy who likes to dress up as a princess is 'trans' and needs to use she/her pronouns and begin a complex medical transition immediately. I mean he could be trans. Who knows? But why assume he is just based on some social construct like what clothes he chooses to wear? That reinforces gender stereotypes EVEN MORE and pushes children even more tightly into repressive binary gender boxes.

It's like arguing with people who have tunnel vision.

PurpleHoodie · 21/12/2019 17:27

< High fives Detroit >

PurpleHoodie · 21/12/2019 17:29

What Inion said ^

DetroitDReindeer · 21/12/2019 17:30

Yeah...what inion said. With bells on.

High five my hoodie friend.

Datun · 21/12/2019 17:31

mummyduckduck

It's less about what you are comfortable with, and more about withdrawing any semblance of choice.

I want to be able to have a woman handle my breasts during a mammogram. Likewise a smear test. I don't want to be called a bigot for insisting.

Female prisons, rape refuges - places which should automatically exclude men. Now they don't. Convicted rapists are being sent to female prisons where they are sexually attacking the incarcerated women.

You might be comfortable with that, I'm not.

Sports, all women shortlists, female psychiatric wards, women only social groups.

Many tranwomen have autogynephelia or, as a transwoman informed us earlier, female embodiment fantasy. Where they become aroused by imagining themselves as a woman. I don't want them enjoying an erection in the Marks & Spencer bra changing room, where my 13-year-old daughter is being fitted for her first bra.

You being fine with it is irrelevant.

Clymene · 21/12/2019 17:33

The other thing I think we have to remember is that most men I know would be horrified at sharing intimate spaces with women. My father and my son both refuse to use shared toilets. They would both be horrified with shared changing rooms (either single cubicle or communal) or sharing a hospital ward.

So I think we have to ask ourselves who are the people who are pushing for this and why?

Because most decent men don't want this any more than women do.

PurpleHoodie · 21/12/2019 17:38

Absolutely what Clymene said:

Decent men do not want this either.

Datun is SPOT ON.

(I should change my name to Whatshesaid)

mummyduckduck · 21/12/2019 17:43

Thanks @InionEile and @Datun

They both make sense to me. Totally agree with concerns about prisons / refuges etc.

Personally I don't care which medical professional treats me, as long as they do it well, but I appreciate the patients should have the choice.

My original query came having seen lots of posts about shop fitting rooms. Thanks to those that provided links about studies into the higher level of attack's in such settings - that's important information.

I'm not familiar with all of the phrases and acronyms used. It seems to be a rapidly evolving topic.

Thelnebriati · 21/12/2019 17:44

mummyduckduck Its really sad that you need to make other women spell it out to you.
Some women have survived CSA, or rape or other sexual abuse, or are presently in abusive or controlling replationships or dealing with DV, or are from conservative religions or similar backgrounds.

You have no right to demand this kind of information from other women and should not pry. Learn to trust and believe women, learn to take no as an answer.