Maya lost - can it be true?

[OhHolyJesus]

I'm not saying it is true - Twitter isn't known for being wedded to truth...anyone able to shed light? I thought the verdict wasn't due for a while...

twitter.com/boysvswomen/status/1207379435684585474

I would expect the dysphoric individual to show kindness to me too.

Yup, and the non-dysphoric trans crowd. Men who identify as women on Thursdays and Fridays, the full-time NBs who continue to sport handsome beards but take offence if someone refers to them as he, and cross-dressers who can now add female pronouns to their fetish toolkit. (I'm only referring to fetishistic cross-dressers, obviously, no one else.)

"Let's be kind"?

However, I do believe that people should be accountable in the workplace for being kind towards others and not deliberately misgendering someone.

Nope. Workplaces aren't for kindness. They're about doing a job of work and not harassing or bullying others. There is no way in creation I will ever incorrectly sex someone. It's unkind to me to expect me to do it.

ThePurported Oh absolutely, yes!

Does Judge James Tayler think that anyone in the workplace who does not refer to me as a penguin if I ask them too, or a combine harvester if I ask them too, should also be sacked?

Where is my Object Recognition Certificate? Why can't I identify as an object, but a XY chromosoned man can identify as an XX chromosoned woman?

too to

If someone shows me the kindness of recognising my sex (which I know is obvious to them) I'll do them the kindness of acknowledging that they believe in an invisible, innate gender, and that they possess one of these. Without of course, pretending that I share that belief, and without pretending that I have a gender too, let alone one in common with them.

Unless of course they've stolen all of the words that apply to my sex and are misusing them as if they are words for their purported invisible gender.

Then they're being extremely unkind to me and I am under no obligation to do anything other than object to their unkind behaviour towards my sex.

They seem to be both ignorant and stupid. All those people tweeting their delight at the judge's ruling, with comments like "this gives employers the right to sack bigots" apparently can't get their tiny brains around the concept of freedom of speech: that you might disagree with what someone says, but you respect their right to say it.

It's shocking. I know people who think they are terribly liberal and progressive, who consider themselves educated, who are talking about things like how deplatforming works and we should all work together to deny bigots a chance to speak.

Do they not consider that if this idea had the same kind of power in say, 1950, there would have been a whole different political and social landscape now? Who do they think gets to decide which views are bigoted?

Whoop! Been at work all day and boom!

Daylight!

Thank you JKR and Maya!

Silver linings!

what's that about trump?

Does Judge James Tayler think that anyone in the workplace who does not refer to me as a penguin if I ask them too, or a combine harvester if I ask them too, should also be sacked? Where is my Object Recognition Certificate? Why can't I identify as an object, but a XY chromosoned man can identify as an XX chromosoned woman?

Look, I have no real sympathy for the judge here, and I'm not convinced he made a good judgement here, but he works with the law as it stands. Legislators in their wisdom created this legal fiction, and if it's bad, it will lead to bad judgements.

My three-year-old identifies as a reindeer. Which can fly.
Does that make her transpecies?

My three-year-old identifies as a reindeer. Which can fly.
Does that make her transpecies?

Yes. Get her a certificate. Though god only knows what pronoun you're being forced by law to use. Jingle Jangle?

Adam Wagner has just asked Rosa Freedman what she means by legal fiction. He thinks the GRA creates a ‘legal fact’. Jeez I thought he was meant to be clever. The fiction bit is where the trans person is not actually the sex it says on their new birth certificate because of y’know, biology.

So pleased that JK has stepped up. Especially since so many of those losers are HP fans and now all their dreams have been shattered.... Oh well.

However, I do believe that people should be accountable in the workplace for being kind towards others and not deliberately misgendering someone.

Nope. If, at some point, my sex suddenly doesn't matter, then I'm happy to say that their sex doesn't matter either. But until then, no.

Whilst one cohort disadvantages the other cohort, on the basis of sex, sex will matter.

It's way more than 'unkind' to force me to say otherwise. It's lying. Gaslighting. And potentially abusive.

Goosefoot
Look, I have no real sympathy for the judge here, and I'm not convinced he made a good judgement here, but he works with the law as it stands.

Not really. His judgments sets precedent, his rulings make law. He works within the law and every case makes it, it is not static.

His judgment doesn’t set precedent in the employment tribunal. It’s the lowest court. It’s actually better if Maya wins on appeal as that will set precedent, as the gay cake case did. Play the long game.

Also don’t attack the judge or smear him. It’s not relevant and it makes Maya’s case look bad. Maya’s lawyer Anya Palmer has expressly asked people NOT to write complaints about the judge. There is no evidence he has acted inappropriately. The correct way to challenge is through the appeal process.

I posted this on another thread by accident soon sorry if you're reading it twice!

This would seem to be the problematic part of defining a belief from the Grainger case:

"(v) It must be worthy of respect in a democratic society, be not incompatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others"

Surely by definition if someone is using the EqA there is some sort of conflict, and there's presumably no way for Maya to say that the fundamental right she has to women only space is being denied, it's only looking at the rights of transpeople. The criteria seem flawed to me.

@elleandblack on Twitter needs a prize for this.....

Harry Potter and
the Philosopher of Gender Studies
the Chamber of Sex Assignment
the Prisoner of a Twitter Ban
the Gender of Liars
the Order of the Pronouns
the Non-Binary Royal
the Deathly Misgendering

Well. I shouldn't be surprised. But I was shocked it was quite so clean cut. I know the lawyer involved. They didn't doubt. So I should have taken the hint from that!

OMG apparently someone had donated 10k to the crowdfunder!!! I suspect JK. Amazing. There are so many people on your side, Maya.

*has I mean

Holy fuck.

Could we start campaigning to repeal the GRA?
By pointing to the stupidities like Maya’s case that result from it?