Douglas Murray on intolerant politics

[BovaryX]

There is an interesting article by Douglas Murray in the DM about the authoritarian, identity politics which have alienated Labour voters and triggered a paradigm shift in the political landscape. It covers some of the themes which Lang GC Pencils and others have been discussing in light of election result.

It is a divide between people who have real-world concerns and those focused on niche and barely significant ones...How, you might ask, have we reached such a state? There is a clue in the Labour Party’s dysfunctional reaction to its catastrophic defeat on Thursday

When I said families, I meant people that live and work together, not just families.

"Communities"?

Brixton, south-east London

SE London has a record of trialling outstanding supported living initiatives. There are several flavours of 'Good Neighbour' schemes that make a tremendous difference to quality of life. I think of these whenever there's yet another dust-up about social prescriptions or the Academy of Social Prescribing.

tangent to point of OP

I have noticed Scottish regional/Scots stuff is fashionable on Twitter/Reddit at the moment. Threads of people swearing Scottish-style and the like. That's fine, including gendered slurs - I thought this was rather incongruous with the "don't say bitch, prick, dick, gendered insult" environment there. Surely a gendered insult should be just as unacceptable regardless of accent? Hmm. Not seen any, say, Geordie equivalent gaining traction.

Try saying 'folk' on FWR,

Only if you spell it with an "X", Scrim

As someone assigned northern at birth I now feel an irresistible urge to experiment: henx, petx, lovex.

Hmm, not really doing it for me. My cis-northern privilege is clearly getting in the way of me embracing more inclusive language.

Palx? Bollox works.

I don't do Twitter or Reddit so am not entirely sure which terms you mean *Tocopherol&. Are we talking bawbag and fanny? Please tell me they haven't discovered fud. That's oors, they cannae hae it!

ChesterBelloc
Communities
I suppose that's it really.
I was hoping for something a bit stronger without being nationalistic, closer to indigenous.

I love regional accents and am v proud of mine, but not keen on people who claim it gives licence to swear and murder grammar, have poor diction etc..... So yeah, I don’t see why the insults and swearing you mention are somehow funny or culturally valuable just because pathetic speaker has a Scottish accent. Slightly different point, I guess. I think the history of suppression of the accent and dialect has perhaps led to a build up of tension which is leading to this backlash....

Yeah bawbag and fanny are still HILARIOUS as part of a Scottish-flavoured tirade!
Perfectly fine! Can't use them casually in lots of other contexts because it's bad form to use gendered slurs

I do notice these ferocious Twitter warriors dare not ever venture out of the Western bits of Twitter to argue for women/LGBT rights. Just shout at each other about it.

I remember years ago Inverness being stated as the best spoken English in the UK. A soft Highlandish accent is very pleasant imv.
I like regional accents but heard youngsters working in a nearby restaurant in broad local language- 'can a git ye Onythin?'
There's a time and place but political correctness means we have to celebrate dialects and accents and can't say the obvious - that you also need to be able to speak to a mixed public.
Foreign hotel staff speak v good English.

There are plenty of countries with a sort of "public" dialect or even language, and then various more local/community/even family based dialects.

Are they controversial in other places, it doesn't seem to me like they are necessarily.

Fannybaws is totally inclusive.

So the solution is to build low to medium assistance complexes of apartments with a 24 hour porter and nurse, but trying to get this model accepted is very difficult -- because it is a fairly new type of concept.

Eh? I don't understand this comment at all.

Such retirement complexes have been around for, well, I don't even know how long. Light touch but with facilities when needed – 24-hour porter, pull-cords in case of a fall, etc.

Are you perhaps talking about whether such accommodation is owned by local authorities? I wouldn't know that side of it. But it's really not a new concept.

My granny & G'dad lived in a place like that til they died (Scotland) - a one bed, self contained flat in a block with pull cords in every room & all sorts of social stuff going on every day in the common room; 24 hour live in wardens.

They also had the option to eat in the communal eating bit (like a canteen sort of thing) if they didn't feel like cooking for themselves

The hairdresser used to come every week as well!

The one my grandparents were in was council run - they & others moved there from their council houses

Fannybaws is totally inclusive.

When I said families, I meant people that live and work together, not just families.
The very, very old word for this is kith.
As in 'kith and kin'. Your kin are your relations. Your kith are the people you grew up surrounded by. I am fortunate to live somewhere where I see them daily. My DC benefit from this as well. It's increasingly rare and very undervalued.

I've loved this thread. I've not had time to engage as cogently as I would like to, but I hope I can go back through it over the weekend and follow the links.

Kith and kin describes it well.
This is something I never had around me when I had young children. My family had moved out of London, as did many of my relatives in the fifties and sixties. The family just scattered across the south for various reasons, jobs mainly and housing and there's no going back.

To be part of a community with your own kith and kin is a precious thing. Racism and bigotry doesn't come into it.

Thanks Grumpy, we need to revive the meaning of kith, if only to support those in danger of losing it.

Kith and kin is perfect and precious indeed. I'm lucky to be surrounded by mine. For example I live across the street from the parents of an old school friend. People who, at a pinch, could and occasionally did, look after my children if we were really stuck.

You can't put a price on that.

You can't put a price on that.
No, you can't: it's amazing. I only have kith here, though: my kin are scattered across the globe. Having kith around, though, has given my DC a sense of security and an understanding of community.

Kith and kin feels like it could be used in the 'present' without the baggage of national identity, something that the English working class could identify with.

And not just the English of course.

Placemarking

Kith and kin feels like it could be used in the 'present' without the baggage of national identity

Yes, it does. I feel lucky that my extended family provides a close and supported kin, even though we no longer live near each other. And that, although I have moved away from the kith of my childhood, I've found a new one in the life I moved to in the countryside.

These things are life's stabilisers and anchors

Which is why politicians ignore the importance of stable communities at their peril.

(Reiterating PPs thanks to all contributors for an absolutely wonderful thread. See what productive, intelligent, interesting, thoughtful and conflict-free conversations we have here, when we are not plagued by inimical provocateurs and community disruptors?)

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