Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Exit poll suggests Jo Swinson loses her seat

301 replies

CharlieParley · 12/12/2019 22:09

If this is true, how many votes may selling women out have cost her?

OP posts:
ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 13/12/2019 08:58

Oh dear, did Jo 'I don't know how many sexes there are' Swinson lose her seat?

What a pity. Never mind.

feelingverylazytoday · 13/12/2019 09:16

I don't think the majority of women even knew or were interested in the LDS trans stance
This is probably true, but I don't think people have to be aware of all the details. I think there's a kind of general rejection of the whole 'woke' thing.

Needmoresleep · 13/12/2019 09:17

It feels as if the LibDems don't understand democracy. So they have elaborate policy formation at their conference where active members get to contribute to the manifesto. But it is not active LD members who elect a Government. Labour/Momentum are guilty of similar. And the Greens.

You are in your bubble, and you believe you are right. You no platform or #nodebate contrary views, your Facebook feed self selects, your Twitter feed uses blockers, your media choices (BBC/Guardian) come from the same place. You may well never have had a job outside politics.

You don't actually go out to speak to the plumber in Bournemouth or the shopkeeper in Rotherham or the fisherman in Lowestoft.

Promise all you like, but many self employed, people running or working for small businesses etc, people with mortgages etc were probably very frightened by Labour's electoral promises and the idea that they might be the ones paying. Whilst Swinson's offer did not seem to extend beyond pleasing active party members.

This is an election that Labour and the LibDems lost, because outside of election time they don't knock on doors and listen to people.

(I also think that the last US election was an election that Clinton lost, for much the same reason.)

Social media bubbles are proving dangerous for politicians. The Tories are luckier in that the Mail, the Times, the Telegraph and the Spectator rely on readership/advertising for their income. To a greater extent the Guardian seems to rely on trust funds and donations, often from overseas. The post-Dacre Mail is distinctly moved towards the centre and the Times/Spectator seem busy reestablishing themselves as sources of proper journalism. Even the unlikely sounding "Conservative Woman" has been running some sound GC articles, and presumably equally sound articles on other topics.

The next Government will be interesting. New MPs will know that to maintain their seats they will need to deliver to voters who have previously voted labour. Boris has his Brexit mandate but will only keep it if he centres the "just about managing" in his policies, rather than be distracted by the noise created by influential and well placed interest/lobby groups such as Stonewall.

As for Labour. They might ask new activists to spend some time actually out in the community helping at dementia cafes or one oclock clubs. Or perhaps require them to spend a couple of days reading through old MN threads on the money, elderly parent, life-limiting illness, relationship etc boards. They might sneer at MN mummies, but it can be a better window on the world than the Guardian or Ash Sakar's Twitter.

.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 13/12/2019 09:21

I think there's a kind of general rejection of the whole 'woke' thing.

Yes, people are sick to the back teeth of identity politics, sick of being called bigots, sick of being told they have 'privilege' when they don't, sick of spoiled little rich kids hurling abuse.

It's why Trump is sitting in the White House, yet three years on from his election the student politicians that never grew up still haven't figured it out.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 13/12/2019 09:30

NickelADimeCandy you don't seem to be very 'at home' among feminists on the Feminism board. You keep saying that we're tedious, hypocrites, not very bright, ridiculous.

And yet, here you are. Posting the same thing incessantly. On the Feminism board. On threads discussing feminism and self-ID. Even though apparently nobody cares about Self-ID, least of all you.

How strange.

Kit19 · 13/12/2019 09:31

@Needmoresleep I think the bubble thing is very true but I think it extends beyond the door knocking thing

For instance Lots of ppl on my twitter TL canvassing for labour said they’ve reported back time & again over the last 2 years that Corbyn was the problem & that labour HQ just didn’t want to hear that message. No point in asking if the answer makes no difference

So it’s not even that political parties don’t speak to the electorate, it’s that they don’t listen to what ppl say when they don’t agree with it. LD & self ID is a classic example of that.

They can’t discuss beyond their bubble, they just write ppl off as bigots or thick or racist if they don’t agree with labour or LD policies & go back to ppl who think like them

They’ve lost the ability to persuade ppl who don’t automatically think like them

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 13/12/2019 09:35

Anyone who listened to, or saw, JS interviewed this last week knows about the trans thing. They've been snacking her round the head and shoulders with it because it makes her look insane. There was a Times leader on it.

I'm not sure 'this is a tiny niche middle class issue' is working any better than #nodebate.

What else have you got?

Needmoresleep · 13/12/2019 09:49

Kit exactly.

I will not be the only woman on here who has been very shocked to discover that no one would listen to me, and the rest of us. Reasonably voiced concerns about basic principles like free speech and safeguarding were simply written off as "phobic".

British Jews must have been deeply shocked to discover that complaints about deep veins of anti-semitism went unheard.

On lots of other issues as well.

I live in a woke bit of central London and my Fb feed has been full of Oh Jeremy Corbyn stuff. However I have spent the last decade caring for, or rather administering the care of a mother with dementia, who has been living in sheltered housing in a seaside town. This has brought me into contact with a wide range of good people, whether carers, health workers, trades people, estate agents, tenants and so on. It has been like living two lives in two very different countries.

Boris' mandate will have come from the people I have met through renting my mother's flat and managing her care. They don't get the student politics of Corbyn, McDonnell or Swinson. They just want to be listened to and have the Government do their best to meet their needs. Boris has his chance. I hope he centres the people who voted for him.

WrathofFaeKlop · 13/12/2019 10:12

The reasons of the various defeats of the various people have already been attributed to Corbyn, Brexit, honouring the referendum result etc.

No.

I voted for a single issue to be addressed, the most important issue that is self ID.

Layla Moran, Black and all the other MP's who promote self ID will try to deny its a problem.
We are at the cusp where the wider public are starting to wake up to this.

We mustn't let it drop back.

Election2019 · 13/12/2019 10:13

Jo Swindon is the reason I did not vote Lib Dem.

GCAcademic · 13/12/2019 10:19

I don't think the majority of women even knew or were interested in the LDS trans stance

Agreed, Definitely nowhere near a majority. But I’m certain that at least 149 women in her constituency did, and didn’t like it. That’s all it takes.

littlbrowndog · 13/12/2019 10:20

Needmoresleeop

Yeah it’s so true

The elite did not listen to the ordinary people

WrathofFaeKlop · 13/12/2019 10:20

.. Layla Moran, Black and all the other MP's..
I accidentally left off Jo Swindon and so many others.

HandsOffMyRights · 13/12/2019 10:22

And let's not forget Sonia Poulton's documentary on the Challenors and how the LDs still embraced A.Challenor despite knowing the horrific past of The Challenors and the repeated torture and rape of a girl in their shared two up two down - also a Green Party HQ.

The Lib Dems knew all of that and still said "come on in"

That's how much they care about safeguarding and women.

theflushedzebra · 13/12/2019 10:36

Yes, people are sick to the back teeth of identity politics, sick of being called bigots, sick of being told they have 'privilege' when they don't, sick of spoiled little rich kids hurling abuse.

I think this is probably right, and I agree with your analysis, Needmoresleep - Labour and Libdems really really need to reflect on this, and get out of the twitter bubbles, and stop abusing people who rase issues with them.

If people are on the doorstep, and people on twitter are telling you they don't like this policy, or that policy - and self ID IS an example of policies that are not popular outside of twitter bubbles - then blocking them on twitter or shouting bigot is not going to do any good at all. That person still gets to vote. And they won't vote for you.

theflushedzebra · 13/12/2019 10:36

Plus - the two LibDem candidates that I saw/heard being grilled on the subject of self-ID - stuttering their woke way through the interviews, unable to define woman, trying to kid us that letting biological males into our spaces will not impact us - were Jo Swinson and Sarah Wollaston.

Both lost their seats. Just saying.

NickelADimeCandy · 13/12/2019 12:04

SonicVersusGynaephobia

I am a woman. I am interested in things which affect women. You would not be suggesting that I shut up because I don't agree with the consensus?

I'm open to persuasion - the posts during the election campaign did not persuade me to factor "gender critical " issues into how I voted.

Fieldofgreycorn · 13/12/2019 12:11

I don't think the majority of women even knew or were interested in the LDs trans stance. Sorry.

Exactly. It was the Conservatives who started the whole self ID thing.

OldCrone · 13/12/2019 12:22

It was the Conservatives who started the whole self ID thing.

It was the Women and Equalities committee (all parties) who did all the work preceding this.

It was the Lib Dems who pushed self-ID and removal of the spousal "veto" (removal of rights from the non-transitioning spouse) as major points in their manifesto.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 13/12/2019 12:23

people are sick to the back teeth of identity politics, sick of being called bigots, sick of being told they have 'privilege' when they don't, sick of spoiled little rich kids hurling abuse.

1000x this. White privilege I'm more than prepared to accept I have, and to reflect on this seriously. 'Female privilege?' They can get to fuckery with that.

But I don't believe Swinson lost her seat on the basis that her party has thrown women under the bus (albeit I didn't vote for them for precisely this reason). It was Brexit that's seen them off, along with Labour. This election was effectively a second referendum. And no, I don't like the result one bit and am dismayed and disappointed in my voting compatriots. But Brexit will now certainly happen, and support for this idiocy was, sadly, the resounding result of yesterday's election.

MummBraTheEverLeaking · 13/12/2019 12:52

They would have had my vote but they didn't want it. I emailed them about their own candidates insulting women on Twitter and they didn't give a shit.

Serves her right.

Melroses · 13/12/2019 13:14

Plus - the two LibDem candidates that I saw/heard being grilled on the subject of self-ID - stuttering their woke way through the interviews, unable to define woman, trying to kid us that letting biological males into our spaces will not impact us - were Jo Swinson and Sarah Wollaston.

I don't think people are necessarily up to speed on self-id, nor want to be. But this kind of thinking and their inability to defend it did not make any of them appear to be a party that was any way able to deliver their revocation of A50 or the jobs and homes that people want. Jo Swinson also had the added problem of not being sufficiently visible in her constituency.

Needmoresleep · 13/12/2019 13:54

Why was Swinson so disliked?

The Mail has pictures of both Dianne Abbott and Nicola Sturgeon rejoicing at her defeat. People here are clearly pleased to see the back of a woman who did not know what a woman is. My Glaswegian neighbour claims she finds the faux-English accent really grating.

But why?. She is probably a perfectly nice person. Quite possibly nicer than Boris or Sturgeon. Yet her popularity ratings plummeted. I worry that there is some misogyny going on. Though am still pleased those 497 women voted to unseat her.

ItsNearlyMorning · 13/12/2019 14:12

I've just seen her on tv crying saying she is a feminist, who's shattered glass ceilings 😳
She's on sky now.
Think she's been taking acting lessons.
Such high drama !

yellowallpaper · 13/12/2019 14:13

I don't think it is misogyny. Nicola sturgeon is one of the least likeable people imaginable if you are anything but Scottish, but she's done well.

Swipe left for the next trending thread