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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

What does it mean to live as a woman for a year?

140 replies

jewel1968 · 08/12/2019 10:26

If I understand things correctly if an individual wants to undergo gender reassignment now they are expected to live in the preferred gender for a year. So, if someone born male wants to reassign their gender they would be expected to live as a woman for a year. What does that actually mean? What would happen if they dressed in jeans and T-shirt and Doc Martens and sported a short haircut and didn't wear any makeup might they be challenged for not living as a woman? Who decides what it means to live as a woman?

OP posts:

OhHolyJesus · 08/12/2019 10:34

Well exactly, I don't think an inspector comes round to see if they are 'womaning' correctly. It's just a broad, vague arbitrary so-called measurement but I dispose to do something for a year shows some kind of commitment.

If I did yoga classes every Sunday for a year it would show a solid interest but it wouldn't make me a yoga teacher.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 08/12/2019 10:38

I think the Scottish Government decided this meant having a feminine name on a gas or utility bill - though you are not allowed to ask if they do.

Original poster

jewel1968 · 08/12/2019 10:40

What is a feminine name?

OP posts:

AdultHumanWithOvaries · 08/12/2019 10:42

IMO the only way to be a woman is to be an adult human female. There isn't any other way.

It would be interesting to see if there was a way to test this measurement in court and expose it for the sexist bullshit it is....

testing987654321 · 08/12/2019 10:43

I am sure I have read transgender people complain about this requirement as they would get questioned if not womanly "enough". So skirts and makeup a bit of a requirement.

What I want to know is, if someone 'feels they are really a woman', what possible criteria could there be? Literally the only constant among women are our bodies.

Style, intelligence, interests, personality are all varied.

Transgender people are uncomfortable with their own body and gender stereotypes, it doesn't mean they are really the opposite sex.

LangCleg · 08/12/2019 10:45

Yes, it just means changing the name on your gas bill. A matter of paperwork only.

LangCleg · 08/12/2019 10:48

Here you go, from the horse's mouth of the government:

Proof you’ve lived in your acquired gender

This proof must cover the required time that you’ve lived in your acquired gender. It could include copies of your:

passport
driving licence
payslips or benefit documents
utility bills or other documents of an official nature

All documents should be in your acquired name and gender. The earliest document must be dated before the beginning of the required time.

www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate/documents-you-must-provide

Original poster

jewel1968 · 08/12/2019 10:49

I agree. I think women present in so many different ways visually. I can vary from jeans and T-shirt to full on makeup and skirts etc.... I have friends who only wear jeans and T-SHIRT and never wear makeup. I think men are way more rigid in what they wear.

OP posts:

LangCleg · 08/12/2019 10:49

So, to become a member of group holding a protected characteristic under EqA, all you need to do is change the name on your gas bill.

AdultHumanWithOvaries · 08/12/2019 10:51

jewel I have no idea what a feminine name is tbh. There are names that are normally given to girls and those normally given to boys.

If a person has a unisex name (Sam, Riley, Jordon etc) does that mean they're non binary? If they have a name normally given to the opposite sex, does that mean they're transgender?

Utter claptrap IMO.

Kit19 · 08/12/2019 10:57

I have been wondering this - so all I need to do to become a man is change my name on the gas bill & that’s proof I’ve lived as a man???

FOR FUCKS SAKE

ginghamstarfish · 08/12/2019 10:57

change the name on your gas bill?? FFS what is happening to the world?

GladAllOver · 08/12/2019 11:00

One simple test.
Drop pants and show that you have no longer have a penis.

Ibloodylovewomen · 08/12/2019 11:03

Surely it means being paid less, taking on unpaid caring responsibilities, doing more housework and buying/wrapping all the Christmas presents?

testing987654321 · 08/12/2019 11:05

You do need medical reports as well.

aliasundercover · 08/12/2019 11:05

A feminine name? That's easy: Veronica Ivy

HorseWithNoYawnsToGive · 08/12/2019 11:06

...they would get questioned if not womanly "enough". So skirts and makeup a bit of a requirement.

For a while now I've been coming to the conclusion that the correct appellation ought to be transfeminine.

LangCleg · 08/12/2019 11:07

You do need medical reports as well.

Which is nothing to do with the living as a woman requirement.

OldCrone · 08/12/2019 11:08

I think initially they expected applicants to dress stereotypically for their desired sex. They also suggested that part of the requirement was to start using facilities (like toilets) for their desired sex.

After the obvious stupidity of both these things was pointed out (and what checks would there be that they were doing this on a daily basis?) all they could come up with was changing the name on their paperwork. How this works for someone with a unisex name is unclear.

SapphosRock · 08/12/2019 11:09

It's two years and you have to satisfy a gender recognition panel.

So it would mean doing everything most women do so changing name at work and (ironically enough) using female facilities.

OldCrone · 08/12/2019 11:15

You do need medical reports as well.

The only medical report required for a GRC is a diagnosis of gender dysphoria. According to those campaigning for a change in the law, obtaining this diagnosis is humiliating, demeaning and intrusive.

But nothing to do with the living as a woman requirement.

LangCleg · 08/12/2019 11:16

So it would mean doing everything most women do so changing name at work and (ironically enough) using female facilities.

No, it doesn't. There is no check on behaviours. It is a paperwork process only. As per the bloody government website I just posted.

you have to satisfy a gender recognition panel

By post. With documentation such as gas bills and no more. See report from one of the main judges involved on p15 and 16 here:

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Tribunals-Journal-Edition-2-of-2019-1.pdf

As an initial group of judges sitting down to consider the 2004 Act we determined from the outset that our approach would be a facilitative one. Although the law was set out in the Act we had control over our processes and we wanted to give people every opportunity to show their entitlement to a GRC, even if that meant a number of chances to provide the appropriate documents. Panel Directions are normally the follow-up to a letter from the Administrative Team explaining to an applicant what documents they haven’t sent in that they need to produce.

Paperwork only. Nothing more.

OldCrone · 08/12/2019 11:19

using female facilities.

How would you prove you've been doing this? By taking selfies inside the ladies'?

Angryresister · 08/12/2019 11:28

I am sure there must be another marker of being accepted in to your local women’s/lesbian group and destroying it.

popehilarious · 08/12/2019 11:29

If this was an honest requirement:
Be paid less than you were as a male
Have male doctors dismiss your medical concerns
Be turned down for jobs if you're of childbearing age
Be expected to do all childcare and elderly parent care in your family
Do all "wifework"
Be the target of harassment
Etc

In reality:
Change your name on a bill

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