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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

What does it mean to live as a woman for a year?

140 replies

jewel1968 · 08/12/2019 10:26

If I understand things correctly if an individual wants to undergo gender reassignment now they are expected to live in the preferred gender for a year. So, if someone born male wants to reassign their gender they would be expected to live as a woman for a year. What does that actually mean? What would happen if they dressed in jeans and T-shirt and Doc Martens and sported a short haircut and didn't wear any makeup might they be challenged for not living as a woman? Who decides what it means to live as a woman?

OP posts:
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/12/2019 19:18

It means nothing. Or anything the person saying they're doing it says that it means. Mostly it means contacting your gas company and asking them to change your billing information. Which is definitely what we should be basing who has access to women's shelters and who gets to give us a smear test on!

LangCleg · 08/12/2019 19:19

But it had to be done ... not for the Doctors, nor the Gender Recognition Panel, nor the Gender Clinic I was attending at the time, nor the psycho therapist or anyone else you could think of

Thanks for letting us know.

This thread, however, is about the requirements for the gender recognition panel. Which basically comprise changing your name on your gas bill. Talking about gas bills isn't humorous - in bad taste or not. It's a plain statement of fact.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/12/2019 19:22

Calling someone a psycho therapist makes it sound like you're alleging that they're suffering from psychosis.

NotAssigned · 08/12/2019 19:25

The GRA is nonsense and has outlived the reason it was enacted in the first place.

The only path is to repeal the GRA.

Gender reassignment in the EA, in relation to goods and services and employment, would allow people who identify as trans to be rightly protected from being discriminated against in these areas.

And single sex exemptions, based on biological sex would endure single sex spaces are reserved for women.

arethereanyusernamesleftatall · 08/12/2019 19:35

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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/12/2019 19:41

The whole world is being held in thrall to the comically sexist ideas of "woman" that a bunch of doctors came up with back in the 60s or 70s. Yes, this occasionally inconveniences those wishing to transition, but perhaps they could spare some thought for what it's doing to the rest of us to.

Original poster
jewel1968 · 08/12/2019 19:41

'wasn't trying hard enough to be feminine' - you see I think that encapsulates the issue. What is that person meant to do? Are they meant to dress and behave in a way that is stereotypical of femininity? And who decides?

OP posts:
Jaxhog · 08/12/2019 19:52

I hadn't really thought about it tbh, but it is rather important as it implies there is protocol for 'living as a woman' i.e. confirming to a gender stereotype.

Perhaps this explains why so many transwomen appear to have long hair, 'feminine' names and wear makeup and dresses/skirts? In other words, they feel obliged to present a rather narrow view of 'woman'.

PermanentTemporary · 08/12/2019 19:55

I believe many trans people would say that's exactly it Jax.

andyoldlabour · 08/12/2019 21:04

"You do need medical reports as well."

Does that show the gradual change of the Y chromosome to become an X chromosome?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/12/2019 21:06

Is there an intermediate stage where it's a chromosome not currently known to science?

LangCleg · 08/12/2019 22:34

What is that person meant to do?

Dress and present as they like. Get whatever cosmetic procedures they want. Nothing to do with women.

Staffori · 08/12/2019 23:41

I would also very much like to know what joolz did to meet this requirement. It's obviously not about menstruating, being pregnant and breastfeeding, which are the only things that truly distinguish women's lives from men's - well, apart from being at greater risk of sexual harassment and assault.

If it's about wearing feminine clothes, hairstyles and makeup then it's about reinforcing sexist stereotypes and should be done away with. I would do away with the GRA altogether but if we're stuck with it, let there be a long waiting period that is about proper gatekeeping and making sure that that it's the right decision for that individual.

Goosefoot · 08/12/2019 23:55

As I understand the way this came about, it was really a medical or more properly psychological thing, so the idea of it being hard and fast or testable probably didn't enter into it much. It was a way to see if the patient would really benefit in terms of mental health and ability to cope by presenting as a woman all the time, and if there was a real commitment to doing so as well I imagine. Both for the doctor to see how it went and for the patient, before going on to take more radial steps.

I daresay that "presenting as a woman" would depend somewhat on the patient and the nature of his sex dysphoria, but it would probably have to include stuff like social presentation because that would be potentially something where the patient might imagine as a lot better than what the reality proved to be.

None of it really makes sense IMO unless it's a part of the assessment of the individual and the doctor, from a medical perspective, with the goal of alleviating severe psychological stress.

Datun · 09/12/2019 00:01

I would also very much like to know what joolz did to meet this requirement.

Me too. And of course, it will be 1950s, regressive stereotypes.

So it's amazing how Joolz thinks we all think this is funny. Or we are misunderstanding. Or the outrage is pretend.

One thing I can absolutely guarantee is that Joolz will be singularly unable to claim we have misunderstood, once they have explained how they 'lived as a woman'.

Not holding my breath, tbh.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 09/12/2019 00:19

Once again we have an illustration of the fact that identifying as a woman does not in any way mean identifying with women. Rather the opposite in many cases.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 09/12/2019 07:14

Welcome to Mum's joolz. What brings you to the feminist section of a parenting site?

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 09/12/2019 07:15

Mumsnet, obviously.

Damn autocarrot.

EverardDigby · 09/12/2019 07:55

Maybe "identifying as a woman" is about putting everyone else's needs above your own, partner, kids, ageing parents. Easy to fail that one if you only think about yourself.

MockersFactCheckMN · 09/12/2019 07:58

So these female names in Scotland: Would that be Ally, Sandy or Pat?

PermanentTemporary · 09/12/2019 08:10

I know in the brief time in a relevant service I had, I knew of 2 desisters who were doing the 'real life experience' bit. Which does suggest it plays a really useful role in making the idea of presenting as the other sex a reality in an individual's life. That for whatever reason, it didn't work for them.

Original poster
jewel1968 · 09/12/2019 08:19

Do you think things are different in cultures where women present differently socially, less 'feminine'? Cultures that are not steeped in western ideas of what women should look like.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 09/12/2019 08:25

However women present in pretty much every society is considered inferior. The RLE originates from men thinking that presenting as a woman is so humiliating for a man it's like a trial of fire.

TinselAngel · 09/12/2019 08:27

The RLE originates from men thinking that presenting as a woman is so humiliating for a man it's like a trial of fire.

Which shows no understanding of AGP whatsoever.

Datun · 09/12/2019 08:57

There are an awful lot of men who claim they experience gender euphoria now.

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