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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What does it mean to live as a woman for a year?

140 replies

jewel1968 · 08/12/2019 10:26

If I understand things correctly if an individual wants to undergo gender reassignment now they are expected to live in the preferred gender for a year. So, if someone born male wants to reassign their gender they would be expected to live as a woman for a year. What does that actually mean? What would happen if they dressed in jeans and T-shirt and Doc Martens and sported a short haircut and didn't wear any makeup might they be challenged for not living as a woman? Who decides what it means to live as a woman?

OP posts:
Goosefoot · 09/12/2019 14:14

Do you think things are different in cultures where women present differently socially, less 'feminine'? Cultures that are not steeped in western ideas of what women should look like

There was some sort of social anthropology stud done, maybe last year? that suggested that in societies where men and women have more similar lives, they tend to have more differences in cultural accoutrements of gender, like clothing.

Studies like that IMO are more suggestive than clearly evidential, but it's an interesting thought. In most cultures, especially historically, men and women simply have had very different lives, even if they tend to dress the same and look very similar. The demands of biology mean quite different social roles, and I think that must translate into a strong sense of what is masculine and feminine, even without differences in dress and such.

But given that in our society men and women can have very similar roles, mainly due to the ability to control pregnancy, I do wonder if that skews our sense of what is masculine and feminine, and tends to make it sexual in a different way. Not sexual as in tied to reproduction (which has historically always simply been a given) but instead sexual as a kind of transaction, or focused on sexual arousal and satisfaction.

jewel1968 · 09/12/2019 14:33

Goose sounds really interesting. I will Google and see if I can find it.

OP posts:
joolzfromyork · 09/12/2019 18:17

wrongsideofhistorymyarse said

Welcome to Mumsnet joolz. What brings you to the feminist section of a parenting site?

My sense of fun ... Smile

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 23/04/2020 15:10

I have a unisex name
I wear jeans 98% of the time
I sometimes watch football
I do the gardening/car maintenance

In a gendered dystopian future will I be declassified? Unwomaned?

My name is Stevie
I rock a pair of jeans most of the time
I wear Doc Marts on my feet, almost permanently
I shave my head (on a number zero)
I never wear makeup
I have a football season ticket
I'm a bodybuilder.

My name is Stevie and .... I am a WOMAN Blush

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 23/04/2020 15:22

Love to see the list of Scottish girlie-names:

Pat
Sandy
Ally

Michelleoftheresistance · 23/04/2020 15:38

Nothing faux about my outrage, I'm fucking furious. This is deeply offensive, misogynistic bullshit, and as usual male people are wandering into a forum where female people are daring to talk about it, moaning that females aren't all oozing sympathy and worries about the Wonder of Them. And any feelings females have must obviously be 'faux' because females losing language, single sex spaces, privacy, dignity, being reduced to ridiculously oppressive and damaging stereotypes in some hail Mary means of allowing a male to prove he is a woman..... well it's not like females are real people now, is it?

Females aren't fucking support humans. And it's not all about you.

JiggeryWokery · 23/04/2020 15:58

When I filled in the Scottish GRA reform consultation it was the question regarding 'living as the opposite sex' that bore the full brunt of my ranting!

Babdoc · 23/04/2020 16:01

Excellent post, Michelle. I second every word of it. This is an invasion, and attempted erasure, and we have every right to object.
Trans people should be free to wear whatever they like and call themselves whatever name or pronoun they like, and should not be discriminated against for employment or subjected to harassment- but they most definitely should NOT be allowed into women’s sports, changing rooms, prisons, dormitories or refuges. Nor should they usurp our language.

Mucklowe · 23/04/2020 16:53

The only possible way of living as a woman is existing with XX chromosomes. Anything else is just stereotypes.

stillathing · 23/04/2020 17:10

Amazing post Michelle. You've nailed why the common accusation of "faux outrage" is yet another example of misogyny. Females are never the main characters. It's assumed we just aren't capable of real, deep emotions or thoughts.

Michelleoftheresistance · 23/04/2020 17:13

Or wandering in moaning about 'slamming' when the whole reason female people are pissed off and having to talk about it in the first place is because they are being harassed and oppressed. I'd bloody love to not have to defend women and girls' rights constantly. I'm not short of other things to do.

If you don't want people to tell you when you're trampling their boundaries, respect their damn boundaries. It's like demanding someone be upset for you that their face hurt your fist when you hit them.

DadOnIce · 23/04/2020 17:17

What the hell's a 'feminine name' when it's at home? Chris, Toni, Leslie, Hilary? ...

Plus are they aware that nearly all Sikh names are unisex? So it's not a very 'culturally aware' requirement...

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 23/04/2020 17:18

The only possible way of living as a woman is existing with XX chromosomes. Anything else is just stereotypes.

Exactly. This whole shitshow solved in fewer than 20 words Smile

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 23/04/2020 17:21

What the hell's a 'feminine name' when it's at home? Chris, Toni, Leslie, Hilary? ...

Like I said, my name's Stevie. It means sweet FA. I'm a woman because I'm an adult human female with XX chromosomes. All the other gender shit surrounding me is irrelevant!

Durgasarrow · 24/04/2020 02:30

Oh come on ladies, we all know what it means. Laughing with salad.

MangoesAreMyFavourite · 24/04/2020 08:02

Well, they should take a 10% pay cut as a start.

They should do the lion's share of housekeeping, cleaning, raising their kids, mental load of the couple.... instead of swanning off into the sunset.

MangoesAreMyFavourite · 24/04/2020 08:03

They being anyone wanting to live as a woman.

Funny how they pick the makeup, clothes and high heels and ignore all the rest.

StrangeLookingParasite · 24/04/2020 09:33

Oh come on ladies, we all know what it means. Laughing with salad.

Grin
NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 24/04/2020 09:44

Funny how they pick the makeup, clothes and high heels and ignore all the rest.

They can do those things as a male, can't they? What's the problem? I'm happily rocking trousers, a shaved head and Doc Marts. I'm living as a woman — whatever the fuck that means Shock — and have no reason to self-identify as a man.

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 24/04/2020 09:49

Woman is not a 'desire', nor a 'feeling'. It's a matter of fact.

Sorry Blush It's at the forefront of my mind this morning (which is probably as it should be). I'll crack on with some work now Smile

bellinisurge · 24/04/2020 09:53

I wear no makeup. I don't shave my pubic hair. I do d-i-y (badly Wink). I like action movies. I rarely wear a skirt.
I'm taking HRT. I had reconstructive surgery on my bits because childbirth went badly.
Am I doing "woman" properly?
I knit and sew, if that's any good. My dad taught me.

InfiniteSheldon · 24/04/2020 10:00

Just realised I accidentally became a man in the eighties. When I left my first partner I lived on my own for over a decade and utility bills automatically defaulted to male. My gas electricity were in Mr Sheldon. In fact my water bill still is even tho I'm Mrs Newname now. Does this mean I can opt out of the Menopause as I am actually a man now?

ginghamstarfish · 24/04/2020 10:01

As it is physically and scientifically impossible to 'live as a woman' unless you are an adult human female, it seems to mean : change the name on your gas bill, wear whatever exaggerated form of female clothes you think is normal - ie stilettos, glitter, frills, spandex, full face of makeup applied with a trowel etc, (because that's what we wear all the time Hmm), loudly and publicly slag off lesbians, feminists, go to M&S and other stores and insist on forcing your way into female changing rooms and toilets. At the end of that time you may be a 'trans woman' but you neither will nor can be a woman.

borntobequiet · 24/04/2020 10:05

I think there should be a virtual reality environment that would allow a would- be transitioner to live an age appropriate year as a woman. 51? Enjoy a VR experience including non-stop menopausal bleeding with bonus clots and cramps, a rapidly diminishing sex drive, wrinkles and weight gain (or excessive loss through ill health and anxiety), angsty teenagers unsure of their own sexuality and other problems, elderly and infirm parents to care for, a possibly hostile work environment and generally being rendered invisible.

OldCrone · 24/04/2020 10:08

You can't live as a woman if you're not a woman. I am a woman, so I live as a woman. It's not possible for me to live as a man because I'm not one, just as I can't live as a child or as a cat. You can only live as something you are, not as something you're not.

For a law to require a man to 'live as a woman' indicates that the legal position is that 'woman' has no meaning beyond a costume or role play.

Nobody said to Rachel Dolezal that she could be recognised as a black woman if she 'lived as a black woman' for a certain length of time, because it was recognised that a white woman can't 'live as a black woman' because she isn't one.