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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Idiots guide to transgender and self id

16 replies

beckyvardy · 04/12/2019 21:13

Tonight my friend and I were discussing who we were going to vote for and we're both as stumped as each other.

I was trying to explain my concerns around self Id and such and I didnt do a very good job of it.

I've been trying to find an idiots guide to show her which would give her a better understanding than what I said as I could see she wasn't convinced that it was all really happening.

I told her about the karen white case and explained about males in changing rooms and how if they said they were a women and she complained there was a man in the changing room she would be seen as transphobic etc.

She was literally like "no that couldn't happen".

So, does anyone have a good link I can send her that's basically am idiots guide or something similar? Any ideas what I can send her to read please?

She absolutely will not read all the feminism boards about it on here until she actually gets it.

OP posts:
SidJS · 04/12/2019 21:32

Fair Play For Women have lots of good resources

beckyvardy · 04/12/2019 21:36

Thank you I will take a look

OP posts:
beckyvardy · 04/12/2019 21:38

Oh that's great thank you I will show her when o see her!

I've just had a read.

OP posts:
BovaryX · 05/12/2019 06:39

Hi,
I would ask her if she thinks it’s okay that a secretive lobby group are exerting significant influence over politicians and the apparatus of power to pursue an agenda which has no democratic mandate. And which is being deliberately concealed from public and media scrutiny. Then I would show her this link. It’s eye opening

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

itcamefrombeckyvardyself · 05/12/2019 12:35

Thanks Bovary.

It is like a secret org isn't it!

I had no idea about any of it until I started to read the feminist boards on here.

sunshinesupermum · 05/12/2019 13:01

I second Fair Play for Women. I follow them on Twitter.

theunknownknown · 05/12/2019 13:32

My sister had no idea until we spoke about it last weekend. It was the males leaving reviews on 'sexy' undies on the M&S website that did it for her.

SidJS · 05/12/2019 14:53

Also be clear about terminology. Self ID to say you are a woman clearly doesn’t make you a woman in any material way at all.

Biological sex - male /female based on chromosomes, anatomy and physiology. This is an objective material reality. Biology is not bigotry.

X= Mother's egg Y or X = Father's sperm = XY boy or XX girl. There are a minority of chromosomal abnormalities. Most of these are still male or female. Decided at conception.

Gender - ‘Gender Identity’ conflated with sex to render it meaningless. It is a regressive social construct for both males and females - pink / blue crap etc.
I.e Behaviour He is ‘assertive’ she is ‘aggressive’ etc for exhibiting the same behaviour.
I.e clothing - In other cultures / timeframes males wore make up, had long hair, wore colourful outfits, skirts / long robes etc - they were still men. When women began to wear trousers, they didn't want to be men, they just wanted to wear trousers.

Children - Major concern - now being taught gender identity etc in school and now more likely to report gender dysphoria. Check out the Tavistock clinic where kids are pushed down a medical route (unlike self ID in adults). Puberty blockers have not been medically tested so these children are being experimented on. Hormone treatment will render them infertile. In any other context, thus would provoke outrage.

Cisgender / Ciswoman - Ahhh. Never use it - I am not a subsection of womanhood. I am womanhood. I don't subscribe to corrosive stereotypes. You can wear trousers, have short hair, no make up, not be very pretty, have a logical mind and still be 100% female!

Gender reassignment changes your sex - No, you have modified part of your body to be more similar to the opposite sex.

I am a Transwoman because I have a female brain - Humans are made up of more than 30 trillion cells inc brain cells, hair cells bone cells, - all are male or female. Therefore there is NO such thing as a male with a female brain or vice a versa. If you are male, the cells in your brain are made up of male DNA.

I want to be known as my desired gender for healthcare - Males /females have clear differences in incidence and causes of many diseases which can directly affect treatments and health outcomes. Knowing one's actual biological sex is fundamental for safe healthcare - you wouldn’t want to be operated on by a doctor who didn’t know your biological sex or not know the differences in anatomy and physiology between males and females.

Gender Assigned at Birth - We are not gender assigned at birth - sex is observed at birth. Penis = boy no penis = girl. Works very well for the vast majority of babies. There is a minority of intersex / disorders of sexual development cases. Trans people are not the same as intersex. I suppose some must be a few trans / intersex in the world??

I was born into the wrong body - You can’t be born into the wrong body. We all have only have the one body which we all need to live with. If you are XY but wish you were XX, you wouldn't exist, you would be your sister. This is down to your father....

Lesbians / Gays - same biological sex attracted -
I.e Many transwomen say they are lesbians - Many lesbians disagree to this as they are same sex not same gender attracted.

Differences in biological sex doesn't affect the structure of society - It does:
Males = bigger and stronger. A man same build and height as a woman is 13% stronger. That's why there is so much male on female violence. Real men don't do this.

Sport - We need female protected sport. Males who have undergone puberty - = bigger hearts, bigger lungs, higher levels of oxygen, more muscle, more fast twitch fibres, different shaped pelvis, longer bones etc so are at an unfair advantage. This is not changed in Transwomen who reduce testosterone levels to compete in women's sports (Current level required is still far higher than usually found in biological females). Perhaps there should be women's events and open events - for all.

Females = pregnancy and for most of history breastfed / no contraception - therefore historically women spent much of time caring for children and not in workplace = women are perceived to be more caring / soft etc and enables historical male domination of professions and workplace.

To procreate - men need to be sexually aroused and orgasm. Women don’t need to be sexually aroused to conceive- hence FGM etc. This has highly impacted on societal attitudes to males / females having / enjoying sex - Male - 'he can't help it', Female - 'she's a tramp' etc...

Hate crime includes calling a person the wrong desires pronoun. This is rediculous.

Self ID won't be exploited by perverts - Hmmmm... you recon? Would you trust your 14 yr old daughter is safe in a communal changing room with a full bodied adult male who chooses to self ID to be there? You wouldn't now, why would you after self ID?

No evidence that males who self ID are more or less likely to commit criminal offences compared to the rest of the male population. Current prison population - males 70,000 - 25% approx. for sex offences. Females 3000 - 100 for sex offences.

Men can self ID in - Women / girls can’t self Id out of:

FGM, female feticide (sex selecting abortion) unwanted pregnancy, unsafe abortions, periods (and not being able to find a pad in an emergency!), pregnancy and labour, maternal death etc.

A rapist won’t check to see if you self ID as a woman. Only men. - inc non surgically reassigned Transwomen can rape. In law you can only rape with a penis - but Kent has recorded a female rapist (a trans woman). No one cares about the victim.

Government policy needs to be based on sex. If not it will entrench sex based inequality and problems, including against men - I.e how to improve healthcare, prison reform etc..

I don’t think the vocal and aggressive Trans lobby speak for all Transpeople. There is a miriad of opinion, which is getting drowned out by TRAs.

NB - My personal position is that women are women and trans women are trans women. However, I think I would be happy to share toilets, changing rooms with a transwoman who has had full genital reassignment - if I knew that had taken place (not sure how that would happen!). I think to feel the need to go through that must be utterly horrendous. Others are free to disagree on this point. Only a minority go through full genital reassignment.

I think self ID is in affront to women and girls, and also to those who have undergone full reassignment surgery. I think attitudes to these individuals will be hardened by self ID and make their lives even more difficult.

No politician will discuss the actual impact of self ID etc on women and girls. See Sarah Wollaston on Newsnight /Woman’s Hour yesterday. Any question about woman and girls rights is flipped to how Trans people are affected. Labour, Green etc do the same. Tories proposed self ID so they are just as bad.

3timeslucky · 05/12/2019 15:34

If she is likely to be swayed by the "but that could never happen" events that have actually happened there is a FB group which captures newspaper reports of those events. It highlights the abuses that have taken place courtesy of self-ID.

Staffori · 05/12/2019 23:59

This site is the most comprehensive resource on all things trans from a GC perspective. www.peaktrans.org

MoleSmokes · 06/12/2019 06:21

SidJS Brilliant post!

Thesuzle · 06/12/2019 06:33

SIDJS... thank you for a very clear breakdown of the situation,
I agree with all you have said and how you said it..
Now if I could only figure out how to print off your post. I would leave copies EVERYWHERE

itcamefrombeckyvardyself · 06/12/2019 10:28

I think on the whole thing everyone is happy to agree that trans women have rights and shouldn't be discriminated against etc and that's what they promote on that simple basis and because it's so simple everyone in the beginning agrees. I mean on that basis why would anyone want anyone to feel discriminated against.

It's only when you start to drill down into what they are actually asking people to do, the terminology, the language, the sports, women's spaces and so on that you start to say "no hang on a minute" because it is literally lunacy what is actually being proposed.

MoleSmokes · 06/12/2019 19:57

SidJS and Thesuzie Nice printy-thing PDF for you Smile

justpaste.it/idiotsguide_trans_Self-ID/pdf

SidJS · 06/12/2019 21:48

MoleSmokes - Many thanks!

TheTinselrati · 06/12/2019 22:04

This is a good starter page:

sexandgenderintro.com/

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