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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

5 year old trans person

125 replies

Fink · 03/12/2019 20:13

nationalfile.com/britains-first-trans-couples-child-5-also-beginning-transition/

How is this considered good parenting rather than child abuse? It says they've been reported to social services, so at least one person has concerns, but yet they still seem to be able to plough ahead with it. Surely there should be some protection for a child who isn't even old enough to be trusted to choose their own clothes, let alone their gender.

OP posts:
Qcng · 04/12/2019 00:05

It's blatant exploitation.

"Our son wants to dress like Elsa from Frozen"
Ooh look now we get our own news story and get to validate our own adult lifestyle choices at the same time.

That poor child.

Spacebowlisback · 04/12/2019 00:09

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I am desperate for impartial, transparent research into transgenderism and narcissistic personalities, up to and including projection/ extension of identity via children.

ChattyLion · 04/12/2019 01:50

Soacebowl absolutely. and if social science and psychology academia wasn’t currently in the grip of a political orthodoxy that castigates offenders for thought crime, we’d be able to see results of freely-conducted research into these questions and others being done. It is against the interests of children if research that might help professionals understand their situation better is not freely able to be proposed, whatever the end result. But it’s well known in general that narcissistic-inclined parents don’t tend to be very good at meeting the emotional needs of children unless those needs happen to coincide with the adult’s wants and needs.

Also if a very young child is showing distress to the extent of hurting themselves, interventions known to help don’t tend to include giving the child different clothes, telling them their body is some kind of category error (or however else the adults in their life might be ‘explaining’ to the child that a social transition is needed) and talking to the media about it.

I don’t understand why there aren’t press guidelines preventing the media from calling children ‘trans’. I really don’t think it’s responsible reporting for the privacy or long-term wellbeing of the child, whatever a child’s parents are saying about it. They wouldn’t ascribe other political beliefs to a child in this way. Wouldn’t they say instead, ‘child being brought up as..[name of political view/belief]’ or ‘child being raised in a family with a strong belief in [name of political view/belief]..’?
Making it quite clear it’s an adult political agenda they are describing , so whatever the child says about that agenda while they are still a child, has to be viewed in that context?

That’s an area where campaigns and professional practice could really do with being informed by academic research on what long term effect this type of media reporting has had on children. Though hopefully as the media hear more of detransitioners’ experiences, this will encourage the more responsible journalists to be a bit more cautious in how they contextualise children in their reporting around these political beliefs/dogma.

ThighThighOfthigh · 04/12/2019 02:03

An easy litmus test could be that if you're too young to drive yourself to medical appointments you may also be too young to have life altering surgery.

BickerinBrattle · 04/12/2019 02:35

They’re also teaching this child a certain means of getting what they want (which, I agree, they should have in the first place, without all the drama.)

I see folie a trois serving to teach a child how to engage in coercive control.

BovaryX · 04/12/2019 07:09

she’s ripping her hair off and banging her head off walls

This story is absolutely horrendous. If a five year old child is doing this, it is a reflection on the environment in which the child is living and indicative of profound distress. What are the parents doing about their child’s awful self harm? This is so shocking, it is quite sickening

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 04/12/2019 07:38

Was it Susie Green or the woman who runs the big gender clinic in LA who was openly demanding that the expectation that children must reach Gillick competency before they're considered able to consent to some procedures be removed?

KatvonHostileExtremist · 04/12/2019 07:42

IT’S WHAT CHILDREN DO WHEN THEY ARE FIVE!!! FUXXAKE
**

IT’S WHAT CHILDREN DO WHEN THEY ARE FIVE!!! FUXXAKE

IT’S WHAT CHILDREN DO WHEN THEY ARE FIVE!!! FUXXAKE

IT’S WHAT CHILDREN DO WHEN THEY ARE FIVE!!! FUXXAKE

Just looping this forever.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 04/12/2019 07:44

If a 5 year old wants to dress up as a policeman do we get them started on police training there and then? What if they want to dress up as a Wookie? That's going to require an awful lot of hair transplants so I suppose they would want to get an early start...

Devereux1 · 04/12/2019 07:45

Would these parents campaign for their child to be able to apply for a gun licence and get a gun?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 04/12/2019 07:45

Like, what is it about the concept that children like to play that some people are finding it difficult to process?

LongLiveThePenis · 04/12/2019 07:48

Here's a link with more info, sorry it's the DM but had the most info I could find.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6585395/amp/Britains-transgender-family-dad-born-female-little-girl-began-life-boy.html
It looks like the child's Mum is not trans, and Greg is a step parent.

clitherow · 04/12/2019 07:57

I am desperate for impartial, transparent research into transgenderism and narcissistic personalities, up to and including projection/ extension of identity via children.

I do not know of any with respect to transgenderism, but I have an interesting book that I have not read in a while (but think I'm going to again) called The Narcissistic Family: Diagnosis and Treatment.
by Stephanie Donald Pressman and Robert M Pressman

As far as I remember, a couple of therapists noticed that they were getting a lot of clients exhibiting the same problems as the adult children of alcoholic parents including desperation to please, inability to identify their own wants and needs constant need for validation. these would make young children of narcissistic parents nothing but mirrors for the parent's desires.

The psychiatrist RD Laing with a colleague whose name escapes me for the moment also wrote a great book called Madness, Sanity and the Family which really tried to remove the focus of 'mental illness' from the presenting family member to that member being the channel for toxic family relationships. Unfortunately, this became such a complex exercise that they were never really able to follow it up and Laing fell into a kind of shamanism. On the other hand, they were definitely on to something.

This is an area that really needs a more in-depth look.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 04/12/2019 08:06

Aw the wee soul. Such a shame this is being played out in the media.

Why can’t they just let the kid be a kid and not tell them that they are in the wrong body - but then dad has gone through this so they can’t say that can they?

I wonder if the bio dad has any say in the upbringing of the child?

ThighThighOfthigh · 04/12/2019 08:06

I did go through a phase of pretending to be a dog, this included shitting in my sandpit.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 04/12/2019 08:08

Yeooooooo. 🐕

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 04/12/2019 08:09

Some children eat soil, apparently, not sure what that's meant to indicate about their "identity".

ChattyLion · 04/12/2019 08:11

Thank you for mentioning those books, I will look out out for them.

ThighThighOfthigh · 04/12/2019 08:13

Kitten determined children.

clitherow · 04/12/2019 08:25

Thank you for mentioning those books, I will look out for them.

No problem. But now I think about it, this is one reason why the 'Left' has been so quick to embrace the transgender ideology and are using it as a battering ram to attack parental rights, and why large swathes of the 'Right' are actually in total agreement. It's all about control.

In the 60s, Laing was known as the 'darling of the left' precisely because he was looking into the shortcomings of the 'family' which the left had identified as the vector for 'oppressive' values. Now the family has a lot of shortcomings but someone on another thread pointed out that we now have had a lot of experience of the state as parent and it has been an unmitigated disaster. But in the 70s and 80s, we still thought the family was the major villain of the piece. As a young person, I was desperate to go to Israel to work on a kibbutz - the idea of taking children away from parents to be placed in communal/state care now makes me feel physically ill even given cases like this.

Now have to go out into the frozen wastes of Yorkshire!

LongLiveThePenis · 04/12/2019 08:55

@TheProdigalKittensReturn I used to eat soil, now my children have botanical names. I think you're onto something.

BelfastNonBlonde · 04/12/2019 09:02

I used to present as a showjumping pony when I was 5..

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 04/12/2019 09:04

I was a witch when I was little. Really really wanted to be a witch. Whenever grownups asked me what I wanted to be, that’s what I told them...

Now some may say...

BarbaraStrozzi · 04/12/2019 09:08

I was a racehorse or occasionally the Silver Brumby, Belfast. Used to set up a racecourse in the front room and go round it on my hands and knees "jumping" the obstacles (more of a bunny hop really, but he'll, in my head I was Red Rum).

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 04/12/2019 09:34

when you’ve got a kid who’s so adamant she’s a girl she’s ripping her hair off and banging her head off the walls?”

At 5, this is extreme behaviour - that kid doesn't need to be told they're a girl, they need to be talked to and it figured out why they would do this, and what strategies can be put in place so they can learn to cope with their emotions and not harm themselves.