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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

5 year old trans person

125 replies

Fink · 03/12/2019 20:13

nationalfile.com/britains-first-trans-couples-child-5-also-beginning-transition/

How is this considered good parenting rather than child abuse? It says they've been reported to social services, so at least one person has concerns, but yet they still seem to be able to plough ahead with it. Surely there should be some protection for a child who isn't even old enough to be trusted to choose their own clothes, let alone their gender.

OP posts:
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 03/12/2019 22:05

The vegan cat analogy does rather come to mind, doesn't it?

pallisers · 03/12/2019 22:05

I can't quite believe what I've just read, what exactly will happen to them at 5 years old?

well in the case of the kid in my dd's school a letter was sent to the parents in his kindergarten class and to the parents of the 8th graders (the two classes did things together through the year) explaining that he had been seeing a psychologist and was now presenting as a girl. He grew his hair (half of the other boys also had long hair), wore dresses sometimes (it was the kind of school where you could have worn anything you wanted without reprecussion anyway), and used a female name. what toilet to use wasn't an issue as the classroom had a dedicated loo.

It is what happens as he approaches puberty that would concern me more.

smileylottie87 · 03/12/2019 22:06

@0ldCrone I am in agreement with you, sorry if that wasn't clear. I meant what the hell is going to happen to him in a medical context at 5 years old?

YellaHumberElla · 03/12/2019 22:07

So these parents cannot accept their child to be anything other than a 100% gender stereotype.

They refuse to allow the child to be themselves, or develop and behave like a typical 5 year old. Any deviation from absolutely specific social stereotypes is seen as problematic.

Instead they are inflicting strict behaviour rules upon their child, with zero exceptions allowed, and to the extent that they either conform or be instructed that their body is wrong.

And this is all fine.

Butterisbest · 03/12/2019 22:10

Thanks @littlbrowndog
You star, you beat me to the last post on the everlasting Posie thread.
👍

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 03/12/2019 22:16

she’s ripping her hair off and banging her head off the walls?

I know the feeling, after reading about that poor child, I feel like doing the same. Poor wee soul hasn’t a chance.

smileylottie87 · 03/12/2019 22:19

Thanks @pallisers it almost seems like a forgone conclusion if the doctors are monetising this situation and the parents are pushing it, how would they ever get the opportunity to think for themselves when they've been told what they are since being a child.

OldCrone · 03/12/2019 22:20

I meant what the hell is going to happen to him in a medical context at 5 years old?

Nothing, but even 'social transition' can have lasting effects on the mental health of a child. The child is being told by his parents that he can change sex, and that he can be a girl when he is actually a boy. It's child abuse.

And what happens in a couple of years if he changes his mind and doesn't want to be a girl any more? And his parents and teachers are calling him 'she' and using a different name for him. And all his friends think he's a girl.

Justhadathought · 03/12/2019 22:21

Personally, I think Disney has a lot to answer for......so many kids are brought up on Disney these days - and it is based on very strong gender stereotypes; even when the princess is the heroine......

Justhadathought · 03/12/2019 22:22

Longitudinal results revealed that Disney Princess engagement was associated with more female gender‐stereotypical behavior 1 year later, even after controlling for initial levels of gender‐stereotypical behavior. Parental mediation strengthened associations between princess engagement and adherence to female gender‐stereotypical behavior for both girls and boys, and for body esteem and prosocial behavior for boys only

Butterisbest · 03/12/2019 22:28

anomoony
When I was young, I was a tomboy, I had an older brother, only 18 months older, we were thought of and were as close as twins. Toxic parents tend to have that effect. Photos of us at that time show the closeness and similarity in appearance . He died. I lived but even my very toxic parents didn't want me to pretend to be a boy to make them feel better.
I'll risk a strike to say that this story is very sad and seems to me to be more about the parents than this little child.

Justhadathought · 03/12/2019 22:28

The boys who would be princesses: playing with gender identity intertexts in Disney Princess transmedia : www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09540253.2012.674495

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 03/12/2019 22:39

Call me crazy here, but wasn't Frozen the most popular Disney movie in generations? And that's why there's a sequel? Gosh, so strange that children would want to dress up as a character from that. Must mean something very unusual is at work.

PurpleCrowbar · 03/12/2019 22:42

Are both parents identifying as trans?

One of them is terribly young to be the parent of a 5yo.

I was reading it that 27yo Greg is the person who gave birth to Jayden, but now is seen socially as 'Jayden's dad' & that Greg is now in a relationship with 21yo Jodie.

Nowt wrong with a 27yo being involved romantically with a 21yo, obviously, but if they're both the biological parents of their 5yo child it suggests an initial relationship aged 16 & 22 at most.

Or, alternatively, Greg is a transman who now has an unrelated to their child younger female partner & they're raising Jayden together. Again, nowt wrong with that per se, but it sets up a very different power dynamic if the older partner is the parent & the one barely out of school herself is the 'step parent'.

I hope it all works out for them, but I simply can't agree that 5yo Jayden is deciding all this for themself, poor kid.

LangCleg · 03/12/2019 22:46

I recall this judgement:

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/2430.html

TerfinUSA99 · 03/12/2019 22:47

So many weird things for me in this story. The mother is 21 (ie was pregnant at 15/16, which is rarely a lifechoice. The 'step-dad' has had a mastectomy but not bottom surgery and claims their child sees 'him' as a man. Where is the child's biological father in all this? The mother IDs as heterosexual but is with a partner who also has female genitals. I wonder if both women have had such a hard time being female that they're trying to make Jayden into the perfect little girl who won't have any of the issues they had?

I am horrified by their behaviour, and absolutely think that child needs protection, but there's a bit of me that does feel sorry for girls/women who transition as it always seems like there's a lot more psychological damage at the root of it rather than attention-seeking or fetishistic desire. I dunno.

OldCrone · 03/12/2019 22:49

I found this from January this year.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-trans-family-abused-trolls-13852091

It seems Jody is the mother of the child.

Clymene · 03/12/2019 22:57

Well, they're certainly keen on media attention. Bit odd if they're just trying to blend in with everyone else

midcenturylegs · 03/12/2019 23:03

I fucking hate all that Disney shit. Thankfully so did my daughter at that age. She's a teen now and is uncomfortable with parts of the things that she is going through re puberty but isn't it up to us parents to reassure our girls it's very hard but it's normal to feel bewildered by it all.
I wear makeup, have facials, wax my legs (myself, and out of her sight). But I service my own car and tell men at work to shut the fuck up when they sneer at me for finishing work early to go to a school play). So fed up of this stupid stereo-typing.

Btw. I have had wine, home now after running an all male engineering event.

KristinaM · 03/12/2019 23:04

I read it that 21 year old Jodie is the biological mother of the child. She only met Greg 3 years ago and the child is 5.

PurpleCrowbar · 03/12/2019 23:04

Ah, ok, sorry, other way round then.

& y'know they genuinely seem like a very pleasant young couple.

Does that mean that a 5yo is best served by being told he's a girl because he wants to wear stereotypically female clothes - rather than being told he can wear whatever he likes? If he's 'ripping...hair out', that's not great & needs looking at, & not by lying to the poor mite that wearing a pink T-shirt makes him a girl Sad

TowelNumber42 · 03/12/2019 23:08

What if Jayden turns out not to match the perfect princess stereotype either?

You know those mothers who clearly take poor care of themselves and clearly have serious body issues, who also have small daughters always dressed to the nines, all excessively girly and often a bit uncomfortably sexualised, constantly splattered all over FB too. Well, when I look at the photo in the Record it makes me think of that.

The child as a living avatar for the parent, not a person with their own needs and free will.

Butterisbest · 03/12/2019 23:29

langcleg that report was very uncomfortable to read, I'm not really interested in who is the biological mother or the biological/ purported father in this case. Or which/any/none is transgender. It might be a good idea if the child's parents/ guardians moved away from selling their stories and dealt with their understandably confused child, and stopped thinking about themselves for once.

Spacebowlisback · 04/12/2019 00:04

It’s so contrary.

On the one hand: We’re not going to assign gender to our child so they can figure it out themselves.

On the other hand: They like DISNEY! Bam! That’s a girl right there!!

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 04/12/2019 00:05

she’s ripping her hair off and banging her head off the walls

Are the parents blinded by their own agenda?
Surely the reasons for this need to be addressed and come on it's not because the child thinks they are trans.