Dr Philip Lee, LibDem candidate shows us who he is

[MrsSnippyPants]

In my opinion he didn't cover himself in glory on the issue of women's rights. His answer on prisons showed where his priorities lie. Did I misinterpret him?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/3758248-Webchat-with-Dr-Phillip-Lee-LibDem-candidate-for-Wokingham-on-Tuesday-3-December-at-2pm?msgid=92040789

He said:

By the same token, the women's justice system needs to be confident that someone coming in to the system has properly transitioned. Because this can take some time, it strikes me that to have a separate unit for this process to take place is a sensitive and practical option. at the forefront of my mind is the security of everyone involved, particularly the person who is changing their gender

I think what he means here is that there should be a third space for people until they have properly transitioned, and I suspect that the "particularly the person who is changing gender" bit is to alleviate criticism form people who would not accept a third space.

However, it's anybody's guess what 'properly transitioned' means.

I posted a question that was deleted without trace too.

Isn't it the case that some prominent LibDem trans 'women' resigned in protest at him being accepted into the party?

crossandperplexed - Yes.

Crossandperplexed yes I have. Threatened with suspension

I’ve just had an email about my deleted question (which was about the guidance being pushed at schools by places like Stonewall, LGBT Youth Scotland etc) along with a warning about being suspended from MN if I don’t follow the rules.

Maybe politicians should learn to answer questions.

I am really shocked TBH. I have been on here for over 10 years.
What on earth is going on at MNHQ?

My post was reported.

OH! So did I. Get an email.

But I did follow the bloody rules! I didn't ask a question about "gender self ID", I asked a question about lobbying!

It's not new, chaps. Women were suspended in real time for not being sufficiently deferential to Stella Creasy (who attempted to actually mislead us about adding misogyny to the monitored hate strands in her legislative amendment).

I didn’t get an email. No idea if I’m in the last chance saloon (yet again)...

sass'nfrass'n Dick dastardly...

Ok so it would appear that we can’t ask the same question over again (although I believe I asked 3 or 4 in the same vein only the once) or ask for them to explain non-answers because they won’t come back and others won’t want to come on and answer questions (or not).

Hope that’s clear you lot. Bunch of meanies asking a politician hot issue questions... look you could have made a politician cry...

I don't consider that my question was about gender self ID.

I can understand them not wanting the same question over and over - but I asked about a LibDem peer telling feminists they're not welcome in the LibDem Party if they son't agree with gender neutral toilets.

So linked maybe - but I'm interested by this (I think) new thing of political parties telling voters they're not welcome in their party.

For example - did Labour tell the Labour members who joined the Stop The War Campaign before the invasion of Iraq that they weren't welcome in the Party? They may have done - I genuinely don't know.

Political parties actively telling the electorate that "we don't want your vote" because you think XYZ- and I've seen this on twitter from both Lib and Lab - it seems a bit like they've forgotten the reason for taking part in an election is to get people to vote for them, and get elected!

MNHQ get a bit of hostess anxiety when there's a web chat on. the special rules for uppity women become even more opaque

Maybe they forget that some of us actually do this type of thing for a living... it’s not just all jam making with the WI around here oh no...

He's a candidate for Wokingham. How apt.

Actually, I don't know this person's pronouns so maybe not he.

Hi everyone, great to be here. I'm a Mumsnet virgin, so do be gentle with me OMG

HQ just need to hold the line. That's all they need to do.

Because the tide is turning, and when it is all over, do they want to be held up as the shining example of allowing this discussion.

Or for people to say yeah but, of course but not really, but when you actually came down to it, the suspensions, the deletions...

I know they want to attract people to their web chats. But you can't have it both ways. And this is only going one way. They need to get on the bus.

Bunch of meanies asking a politician hot issue questions... look you could have made a politician cry...

People who are looking to represent us in parliament should be able to answer hard questions. They should also have the guts to stand up for what they believe to be right, not be cowed into some sort of appeasement mode by the people who issue the most threats.

The sort of non-answers that he gave to the self-ID questions show that he either doesn't understand the issue, or he's too scared to say what he really thinks.

I'm reminded of a quote from Bobby Robson (i think), when he was the England manager. Cameroon beat us and the interviewer asked him 'did you underestimate them?'

And Bobby replied 'no, I didn't underestimate them, but they were just a lot better than I thought they would be'.

Why do these MPs even waste our god damned time with these poxy web chat things??
Do they have such little respect for us and our legitimate concerns??

I've just skimmed the thread and datun and lordfekko have had me in stitches! (Of the black humour type)

"Shall we talk amongst ourselves?"
"Me heckling sir, no sir, I was quite polite sir!"

Reads like a monty python sketch.

I’ve just had an email about my deleted question (which was about the guidance being pushed at schools by places like Stonewall, LGBT Youth Scotland etc) along with a warning about being suspended from MN if I don’t follow the rules.

Very cross on your behalf. This is safeguarding!

Blimey, that Telegraph article LangCleg

“It’s absurd that a tiny percentage of the population craft legislation that will apply to one hundred per cent of the population"

I was trying to find out about their policy on passports and found this on the LGBT libdems website.

lgbt.libdems.org.uk/en/page/x-gender-markers-on-passports

An increasing number of people in the UK identify as neither male nor female, or live part time in various gender roles. As well as giving people the ability to identify as they choose and not have the state impose an identity upon them, a perceived mismatch between gender roles and official ID can cause problems dealing with official organisations such as the DWP, Police or Border Agency.

So the LibDems don't just believe in gender identity they also believe in 'gender roles'??????

That was a fine example of someone nearly splitting himself in two to avoid pissing anyone off by giving a straight answer.

Spot on. Embarrassingly so. He said himself he was a Mumsnet virgin, surely an intelligent doctor would have done some research before the chat and could have prepared for what would very obviously be our primary topic for discussion.

Even when people sit on the fence so much their arse must hurt, there is always a moment they reveal their true colours. He gave himself away with his "particularly the person changing gender" comment.

A reminder that people born male are always priority it seems, whether or not they later identify as anything else. It's never about women's wants, needs and safety.

And FFS why can't politicians commit to a point of view.

During the webchat, for example, Dr Says-little appears to support self ID in one breath and then use the term "properly transitioned" soon after.

So which is it? What is the threshold? The proper threshold? Self ID or something else? It must be one or the other.

It can only be sensibly debated if all parties involved outline their thoughts and are accountable for what they say.