Ask Angela posters

[placemats]

Seen in the female toilets at a beautiful pub in Wales on Tuesday. I think this campaign is fantastic. Hats off to National Pubwatch.

www.nationalpubwatch.org.uk/news/national-pubwatch-supports-ask-angela-campaign/

This is the kind of 'Woke' I can get on board with.

Generally I don't think the bar or wait staff are responsible for getting you out of a sticky situation but in these times, and particularly after reading The Guardian Blind Date thread, I'm changing my point of view.

It would be nice, wouldn't it if we could all look out for each other a bit more in a real, practical way.

If the poster is in the toilets then the bar staff are happy to help. I was thinking more along the lines of the murder of Grace Millane and the other women who dated her murderer. It obviously raises awareness that there is help there if you need it. It will prompt to the fore that niggly, unsettling feeling you have.

Last time I visited a hospital there were brilliant posters about abusive relationships and coercive control and how to signal to staff if you want help or need to be able to speak to them without your partner present.

Another tiny layer of safeguarding lost in the bright future of mixed sex everything.

It’s a great idea, but I’m sure you can all see the potential weakness.

If your male date can access the ‘gender neutral’ loos he would see the poster, and would know what you were up to when you asked for Angela.

... of course, this would not be an issue if we kept out current rule of women in one loo, men in another.

It wasn't posted in 'gender neutral' loos. It was a female toilet right beside the reception area. Pub with rooms. I think the bar and waiting staff know the difference.

I know. The one I saw in the hospital was also female loo. They're brilliant. But many places are giving up on female loos due to pressure from. trans lobby groups. These posters will lose their effectiveness.

Also posting online means that men will know what this is and potentially be able to intervene...

How will they be able to intervene? If they try it on are they not then exposing themselves to staff?

Anyway, I used to find this board informative and about women's rights. It should be renamed Self-id board. It's now getting tiresome - almost as if it was hi-jacked for the sole purpose of putting women off reaching out.

Also posting online means that men will know what this is and potentially be able to intervene...

..because all men read this board.

Every single one of them.

No, but it is often put up on Facebook/insta too. And surely if we are shoe horning gender neutrality and trans into the argument in case a man goes into the ladies 🤷‍♀️

So what is being said is that there should be no information put in female toilets or on MSM regarding women's safeguarding in case men read them?

That's a bit like saying women, don't walk alone at night because you might get assaulted and we can't be arsed to put up posters about this because, men.

I think it's a fantastic idea and it would be great if it were rolled out more widely. The instructions to bar staff seem quite well thought through too.

It's a good idea, in my opinion.

And yes if some men are aware of the campaign, it will mean they know. But the point is the bar staff will still be able to do what they can to help the woman out.

You're never going to stop some men finding out, but it would have to be the same men who are the problem dates. So all in all, I think it's a good idea.

You're never going to stop some men finding out, but it would have to be the same men who are the problem dates. So all in all, I think it's a good idea.

Exactly this. In addition, I think it’s the kind of thing women might see and remember on somewhere like Facebook, whereas it would mean a lot less to men in general.

I remember a story from someone who worked in the NHS. There were small dot stickers in the toilet. The signal was to place a sticker on your medical notes. Only a small child was there with his mum.... caused no end of confusion!

Anyway, I used to find this board informative and about women's rights. It should be renamed Self-id board. It's now getting tiresome - almost as if it was hi-jacked for the sole purpose of putting women off reaching out.

I apologise for my post. I completely agree that the Angela and the domestic abuse posters are brilliant. It was the opposite of my intention to suggest that we shouldn't bother with them. You were not talking about self id or loss of single sex services; I went there in my general frustration. I can see how that diverts from what you wanted to discuss. Won't derail any more.

This scheme has been reported in the media several times since it's launch (it's been a few years now) should imagine lots of men are aware of it. Plus lots of men work in bars/pubs/clubs so they would learn about during training. It isn't really a secret that only females know about.

There's a Catch 22 with this sort of scheme. If it's widely known enough to be something lots of women know about, it's going to be known to (potentially abusive) men as well. If it's kept under wraps, it's possible not enough people would be aware of it for it to be effective. But I suppose if it helps even one person, it's worthwhile.

I think it’s a really good scheme.

Last time I went for a sexual health check up, I went to the loo to give my pee sample, and there was a set of stickers on back of the door - it said if you needed to speak to the nurse without your partner present, put one of these stickers on your sample pot and they’d get your partner out of the room so you could talk in confidence.

Any ideas like this to help tackle violence against women can only be good things. It’s all about awareness, providing the opportunity for women to safely ask for help, and society in general being more willing to provide it as well.

I have seen these posters at the bar.

I think its a good idea to place them there, shows everyone in the pub, men and women, that the pub supports the scheme and doesn't tolerate that sort of behaviour.

It does not have to be a secret as soon as someone has asked for Angela then help is at hand.

It does not have to be a secret as soon as someone has asked for Angela then help is at hand.

But if it's not a secret, they might just as well ask for help outright.

What does it matter if men know about it? The point of the “ask for Angela” code is that it’s shorthand. The poster tells women that the staff are aware of the need for privacy and discretion and that if a woman asks for help she’ll get it. She won’t have to explain a million different things to a barman who doesn’t get it, while she gets increasingly worried that she’s stuck or that the guy has noticed what she’s doing. She can say three or four words and instantly someone will understand the situation and be on her side. It doesn’t need MI-5 levels of impenetrability. Most of these men will do one when they have to negotiate past more than one woman paralysed by good manners/kindness/embarrassment/whatever.

There was one in my old local. It was great.

The poster tells women that the staff are aware of the need for privacy and discretion and that if a woman asks for help she’ll get it.

But if everyone knows what 'ask for Angela' means, wouldn't "could I have a word with you in private, please?" have the same effect?

I agree it doesn't need to be a secret, it just saves the need for explanation and prompts a predetermined response from staff so they know what to do.