Does MN have a problem with trans people? **MNHQ edited title as OP has apologised for 'accusatory' tone**

[tryandempathise]

Seem to be threads constantly on the issue of trans.

Why?

Is it because it conflicts with the idea of sex as a construct?

Is it an age thing?

There must be mums on here with trans kids - do you just stay out of it?

Why the obsession with the idea of being attacked by trans women? Is it not the modern equivalent of homophobic blokes all thinking gay men want to rape them?

Ps sorry for shouting and thanks to PPs who addressed this more patiently than I have.

My butch lesbian sister smokes a pipe, and nobody's ever got her sex wrong. She looks and smells like an old gaffer, mends her truck herself, works in tech and makes the most beautiful pottery in her spare time. Fuck knows what mermaids would do to her if she was a teenager now....

My cat ate the transphobic goldfish.

So everyone can breathe a sigh of relief.

Sorry but I just read

“Show them her vulva”

Dead giveaway I’m afraid.🧩

I am far more worried about the transmen than the transwomen actually.

The TW issue will get sorted soon enough I think because it is becoming so obviously disastrous what with sports and all the things that never happen that keep happening.

But what about all the teenage girls, unhappy with growing up to be women as defined by society, who are being told they can grow up to be men instead? No bloody way any of them will inherit title / avoid rape / nearly win against the top male cyclists / avoid the glass ceiling / impregnate a woman then choose to walk away from the baby / stand a chance if a man decides to beat them up.

Many will have damaged their bodies. More will have failed to challenge the sexism and dangers in society that left them feeling they can't possibly live being a woman.

It's only women being hurt. It won't affect men negatively. So nobody except their parents will give a toss. If those parents are homophobic, sexist or autistic themselves even they might not be much interested in protecting their awkward girls.

Instead of fighting to change society so girls can live happy gender non-conforming lives here we are arguing about whether women are evil cowbags if they (a) don't believe that humans can change sex and (b) have noticed that males are much more dangerous to females than vice versa and (c) would like to continue organising society around these previously well understood facts of life.

STOP FALSELY invoking racism in a disgusting attempt to shame women into giving up our boundaries.

This is gross, creepy and RACIST as fuck. STOP IT.

^Yup. Have seen plenty of these threads, but this one is something else. Disgusting.

It's depressing how people like the op assume that the problem must be women, or worse, women of a certain age. Why not educate yourself about the issues, instead of letting your prejudice about the messenger paint the picture?

Genderism needs to go back to the 1950s and die. I love all you wonderful women who tirelessly fight this crap every day

I have a whole imaginary alpaca farm and all of my alpacas says that single sex spaces are much safer for women and girls and that it's unlawful for a business, organisation or whatever to harass women and girls by violating their dignity or creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for them, based on the protected characteristic of sex.

All of my alpacas are making mumsnet accounts tomorrow so they can come here and explain this to you in more detail and shorter words, through the medium of alpaca hoof typing.

You don't know them, they go to a different school.

Rejoining from this morning.

I see sexism, ageism and homophobia are still crawling out from certain quarters.

It's appalling that double standards remain, because such contempt and prejudice would not be tolerated against other groups on here. But women? We're open season.

Brava to the women on this thread for being so patient, informed, articulate and funny.

You don't know them, they go to a different school

Always my favourite go-to pisstake reference for obviously made up shite.

You need to catch up to speed with who comes under the trans umbrella these days. Old school' fully transitioned transexuals have been quietly accessing female services and spaces for decades. Your insistence on free access for all is doing them no favours at all.

Sorry to shatter your illusions, Justhadathought but it was a cross-dresser's umbrella way before it was a transgender umbrella. The Beaumont Society begat Press for Change which begat GIRES. They went from a secret club for heterosexual transvestite men to a government supported 'trans kids' organisation that's in our schools in a skip and a jump.

I agree there has been a lot of 'quietly accessing' things over the years though.

soundcloud.com/justplainsense/jps90-alice

www.gires.org.uk/what-we-do/support-for-educators/

Why do you know more about their experience than they do?

Interestingly we just had/still have a long thread in which some of your "TWAW so shut up" mates have been telling women how very wrong they are about their experiences of needing a same sex HCP, and the trauma they've experienced in a healthcare setting, and the trauma they've experienced from men in childhood. Does one need to have a penis to know all about one's own experience?

All of my alpacas are making mumsnet accounts tomorrow so they can come here and explain this to you in more detail and shorter words, through the medium of alpaca hoof typing.

Loving your work as ever, Pens. I'm reminded of a kids programme DD used to watch when she was little. The theme tune had the great line "We're alpacas from the Andes, with hooves instead of handies".

Does one need to have a penis to know all about one's own experience?
Unfortunately, Prodigal in the eyes of certain women the only opinion worthy of consideration and the only people worth support and consideration are those who have the mighty penis. My patience is wearing thin and contempt growing exponentially for these women who so clearly despise other women.

Penis makes every opinion and experience more worthwhile. I know this because many penis owners have insisted it's true. It's like a fleshy magic wand bestowing meaning to all things, and most humans with one attached to them find it almost impossible to consider that the experiences of those who are not attached to one are of any value at all. I call this; "Penis Vision".

I appear to be channeling Howard Moon.

Sung to the tune of "Double Vision"...

Never will understand women who hate other women. Presumably they think it will make men like them better?

Well, if I can be serious for a moment (slaps down inner Howard Moon), when I was deep in a patriarchal cult, that was exactly my mindset. I thought I didn't like women very much, because a) all the other women I knew were on the same treadmill I was and it makes you a fairly unlikeable sort, and b) the anti-feminist cheerleading garnered a lot of headpats from men I considered my superiors.

These women might not think they're in a patriarchal cult, but then, neither did I. In fact, I'd had such a number done on me that I wrote articles saying how great patriarchy was. Much like these women trot out the TRA/AWA talking points.

But, as an addendum, can i just say how bloody lovely it is to not be afraid to say I love women, platonically, romantically, humourously and every other possible way. I think we're brilliant. Self destructive at times, but nobody's perfect.

Sorry to shatter your illusions, Justhadathought but it was a cross-dresser's umbrella way before it was a transgender umbrella. The Beaumont Society begat Press for Change which begat GIRES. They went from a secret club for heterosexual transvestite men to a government supported 'trans kids' organisation that's in our schools in a skip and a jump.

Wow.

I haven't read the whole thread but I saw references to a wild story about a cousin (I think) so before I get a cuppa and start reading can I ask if the story features a masc presenting woman who is shouted at by nasty TERFs in a loo? Because that's the urban myth I'm seeing repeated more and more each day at the moment.

Aw floral you are just lovely 😊😍

In this case the shouting involved specific phrases, apparently. I expect to see those phrases become part of the standard version going forward.

I dunno. Betty

The person who’s cousin it was or whatever the bull they were spinning

Evening kittens

I've often seen women shouting 'rapist!' at short haired women in toilets. It's definitely a thing. I think they do it to psyche themselves up for carefully laying the razor blades behind the stickers.

(waves)

Is that before or after we sacrifice a goat, Floral? I seem to have misplaced my itinerary. I feel like there was meant to be a stop to harvest some mandrake in there too. Do we need carseats for our demonic familiars? I feel like mine will prove uncooperative.