Head's Up. Radio 4 Women's Hour Phone-in 4th Dec

[SidJS]

Women's Hour are having an election phone-in (1 and a 1/2 hour) programme on 4th Dec with the main political parties - focusing on how their manifestos will impact women.

Although the Self -ID proposals and sex-based exemptions under the EA are now being discussed more in the media, the media still in the main conflate gender and biological sex and I don't think the general public really still grasp what the proposals really mean:

As far as I can tell -

Womenhood will now have no definition
Lib Dems - any full bodied man can just out fill out a form so they can legally enter female only spaces
Labour - state that they will maintain sex-based exemptions but are fudging the issue so they might redefine sex to enable full male bodied self-ID TW to access these spaces.

We need to contact the programme so we can interrogate the politicians so that it is clear to the public the difference between sex and gender and give real life examples on how these proposed changes will lead to the wholesale REMOVAL of women's rights and protections.

My question will relate to communal changing rooms.

Currently it is illegal for full bodied males to go into female only changing rooms to watch women and girls undress and undress themselves exposing their male genitals. If this happens, a women can call the police.

Under your proposals, what will stop rapists (only males can rape), voyeurs, flashers, up-skirters, internet groomers (vast majority men) etc from exploiting the changes to legally watch women and girls undressing, and undress themselves exposing their male genitals.

Under the changes, if a woman calls the police, will she be accused of transphobia?

I need to be more succinct - but you get the point!

I'd cut my arm off before putting an X next to uber-misogynist LibDems and SNP. Couldn't even acknowledge that women exist, let alone have policy needs.

I'd cut my arm off before voting Tory (or UKIP/Brexit Party) anyway.

Laura Pidcock didn't do badly - represented the manifesto in that there's a commitment to protect single sex space (although practically speaking no meat on the bones) and a hint at long grass for moving to self-ID with the we've not even analysed the consultation responses yet stuff. Still not strong enough though.

Laura - well done, but you're going to have to do better and be blunter before I vote Labour.

Yep, so predictable it was the last item and no time to cover it.

Having said that, it did sort the wheat from the chaff with only 2 mins soundbite from each commenter.

Well, chaff from mostly-chaff.

I dunno. I'm going to cut WH some slack on this.

JG is clearly clued up.

JG should have either intervened less by letting Speaking Penny make more points or cut in with more comments of her own showing up this dangerous nonsense.

I think she is treading a fine line. The BBC has a disproportionate number of trans employees

There’s no doubt JG is on the ball with this. Pressure from above is probably intense.

Little and often will get attention though. It’s no longer a fringe issue and it’s not going away, editors know it.

^ThePurported*

It does need saying.

And here on Mumsnet, despite people thinking we're the worst of the worst, we don't highlight and link to these men, or encourage pointing fingers. We just observe, and know who they are. We see them.

It was the thing that woke me up the most, out of my slumber of supporting unquestionably 't' rights.

But once you start researching, trying to understand their point of view, their call to 'womanhood, the minute you disappear down their social media, you realise that most of them have no idea what a woman is, and that they are mostly fetishing women.

I do still try to find Sarah's cohort that she refers to, that 'most vulnerable group', as I want to understand all perspectives.

But mostly I find fetishists, who are sometimes lauded by young women.

When I listen to programmes like this morning's Womens Hours I try to think about 'the most vulnerable'. But I have few examples I can centre, and all I can relate to are the many, many men who identify as women, all over social media, who are dominating our female world with their fetishistic language and opportunistic chance to take our spaces and places from us. I, like many of us, have the evidence. Though I don't think many people are that bothered about what we've found.

I thought JG was fantastic.

I was pissed off at first with how much she interrupted Penny/Speaking but it was clear there was very limited time left and I think she managed it well. I doubt she was in charge of which questions got cued up when.

She managed to challenge Sarah Wollaston a couple of times quite strongly and made agreeing noises when Belinda de Lucy said that women's groups have been met with intolerance and authoritarianism.

Pencils thanks for the transcript and Speakingfor asking the question.
@YellaHumberElla this is for you.

There’s no doubt JG is on the ball with this. Pressure from above is probably intense.

I agree.

Yes, Jane Garvey did her best with the time available, and she is always on the ball on this topic, she is a pro and not a WH presenter for nothing.

Butter

LP: Gender Recognition Act - there were thousands and thousands and thousands of responses and nothing has been done with those. There's been no analysis of those responses and I think the next step, whoever gets into government, and we are saying we would do this, is to analyse those thousands of contributions on the GRA.

^ This is the bit that infuriates me. She’s basically saying they haven’t analysed the many thousands of consultation responses but all the parties (Tories and Brexit excepted) have committed to pushing it through anyway. 😡 Bastards.

All that time spent filling in that effing consultation. Answers to those mangled pre-loaded questions.carefully drafted, with examples and explanation in the free spaces.

Not even looked at let alone used. A very revealing comment indeed.

Maybe the Tories/civil servants read a few responses, felt the heat coming off the pages/screen and slowly backed out of the room.

It was supposed to garner a few responses from pre approved sources and confirm the policy already planned. (Which is against the codes of practice for local and national govt but they seem to write the codes for....other people or fun or something.)

Bravo to the women who shoved a spoke in the wheel and said in their thousands, what the fuck do you think you're doing?

I heard the trailer for the phone in on my way to work, and was shouting to myself in the car that I hope a Mumsnetter gets on!

I have had the fox picture as my phone screensaver at various times too...makes for interesting discussions!

And yes, a bit embarrassing for the Conservatives who have repeatedly said it's all being carefully read and analysed...…

thanks for that giveaway.

Yella I just started thinking the same, and then reminded myself if we hadn't all done that work maybe the Tories would have pushed it through already by now!

This is the bit that infuriates me. She’s basically saying they haven’t analysed the many thousands of consultation responses but all the parties (Tories and Brexit excepted) have committed to pushing it through anyway

I actually think this is the party line hinting at long grass for self-ID, as per the manifesto.

But, as I keep saying, it's no good Labour being delicate about this. Women aren't going to trust it. Too much water - at best ignoring and at worst traducing women - under the Woke bridge.

Wollaston on Newsnight now repeating the same guff. Unbelievable.

the GRA act that - the draft bill that we are introducing early next year - that's about ensuring that all young people have access to support from a trusted adult

What the fuck is this about from the SNP woman? Anybody know why there would be stuff about 'trusted adult' inserted into a GRA amendment for Scotland?

It's very odd Pencils.

blogs.gov.scot/fairer-scotland/2019/06/20/reforming-gender-recognition-in-scotland/

"We are proposing that applicants should no longer be required to provide medical evidence of a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate. They will still be required to make a statutory declaration in front of a justice of the peace or a notary public saying they have been living in their acquired gender for a minimum of three months and intend to do so permanently.

Making a false statutory declaration will continue to be a criminal offence punishable by up to two years imprisonment. We also propose the introduction of a three month period of reflection after which the applicant will need to confirm they wish to proceed.

In addition we will consult on whether the minimum age of applicants should be reduced from 18 to 16 but we are not proposing legal gender recognition for under 16s. And we will seek views on what support is needed generally for children and young people uncertain of their gender identity.

I have heard directly from young trans people of the fears they face, so central to this is ensuring that all young people have access to support from a trusted adult who they know will listen sympathetically and without judgement, whether that be from a third sector organisation or mental health and wellbeing service."

Third sector organisation such as...?

Would that trusted adult guff tie into the passage in the Denton report that said an important factor was to remove parental authority?

Just listened to Penny Women's Hour. Can't believe that the first thing that Sarah said was about trans discrimination as if she was automatically drawing a line between this concern and transphobia!! Not surprised though as that is what a lot of people doing now. First thing she did was down play the risk women face by 'turning the issue on its head' and not answering the damn question at all!! Almost all of them showed more concern for trans individuals than risks to women. When all of them evade such a simple question like that with no clear abc steps for safeguarding, you know there's no proper safeguarding in place at all. It was like listening to trained poodles trot out the party line. I think most of them are too scared to talk openly knowing they'll be told off for it.