Head's Up. Radio 4 Women's Hour Phone-in 4th Dec

[SidJS]

Women's Hour are having an election phone-in (1 and a 1/2 hour) programme on 4th Dec with the main political parties - focusing on how their manifestos will impact women.

Although the Self -ID proposals and sex-based exemptions under the EA are now being discussed more in the media, the media still in the main conflate gender and biological sex and I don't think the general public really still grasp what the proposals really mean:

As far as I can tell -

Womenhood will now have no definition
Lib Dems - any full bodied man can just out fill out a form so they can legally enter female only spaces
Labour - state that they will maintain sex-based exemptions but are fudging the issue so they might redefine sex to enable full male bodied self-ID TW to access these spaces.

We need to contact the programme so we can interrogate the politicians so that it is clear to the public the difference between sex and gender and give real life examples on how these proposed changes will lead to the wholesale REMOVAL of women's rights and protections.

My question will relate to communal changing rooms.

Currently it is illegal for full bodied males to go into female only changing rooms to watch women and girls undress and undress themselves exposing their male genitals. If this happens, a women can call the police.

Under your proposals, what will stop rapists (only males can rape), voyeurs, flashers, up-skirters, internet groomers (vast majority men) etc from exploiting the changes to legally watch women and girls undressing, and undress themselves exposing their male genitals.

Under the changes, if a woman calls the police, will she be accused of transphobia?

I need to be more succinct - but you get the point!

@Nauticant. No, me neither.

Well - shoehorned into the last three minutes as an afterthought (as usual). LibDem: "be nice, be kind", SNP: "it's a difficult area but we're pleased to have our amended GRA coming out, and the EA needs updating", Conservative: "sympathy with dysphoric people but single sex spaces must be respected where applicable". Labour: who bloody knows? As clear as mud, just like their policy on brexit but plenty of use of 'gender' and no mention of sex.

Well done 'Penny' the caller.

Ah maybe it was the Brexit party candidate who was most clear, not the conservative. Yikes!

Be kind

My days of being kind are over. So they can Fuck off
Well done Penny

What did caller Penny say? Can't listen at the moment.

For some reason I completely zoned out at what the Conservative said. Did she say anything of note or was it completely empty?

the EA needs updating

WHAT?! What does this mean?! (Not shouting at you, bialy, just hugely concerned at that. It's the next step, isn't it - erase 'sex' entirely and replace with 'gender').

Luckily, I don't suppose the SNP have any prospect of 'updating' the EA.

No one party speaks for me, I was a floating voter, now I am voting Conservative based on the continued attitude of SNP, LibDems and Labour on this topic. I could not bear to vote for the Brexit party although Belinda spoke the most eloquently and sensibly.

Stonewall have been quite clear on what an updated EA would look like and have been pushing for a while.

Remove all references to sex and thereby end sex based rights for female people

Remove all exemptions for single sex spaces for females

Change gender reassignment to gender identity, meaning anyone, any time, any stage of transition, self ID and no boundaries at all

Heads males win, tails females lose.

However this wanting to 'update' does suggest that the EA continues to have legal power that could/would thwart anti woman activist agendas.

We keep being told it's all done, dusted, in place despite the EA. But the fact the EA keeps being mentioned says, in court they know damn well the EA would thwart all this.

It needs getting into court as often as possible.

Just listened now. Complete obfuscation of the issues. Lib Dem response was bollocks. One person talked sense - not sure who she was -

I couldn't believe the Lib Dem woman (Sarah Wollaston? Adoctor?!)'s inability to even speak about women, and just constantly said, on repeat, "we need to flip this around and think about the trans people".

The question was about WOMEN, Sarah. You're on WOMEN'S Hour. Can you manage to think about this issue from the perspective of 50% of the population, rather than 0.5% of males?

Fuck Sake.

couldn't believe the Lib Dem woman (Sarah Wollaston? Adoctor?!)'s inability to even speak about women, and just constantly said, on repeat, "we need to flip this around and think about the trans people".

Appalling

The bloody Lib Dem woman was inexcusably awful. Totally unwilling to even acknowledge the concerns.

It was a completely nonsense answer.

The only half decent response appeared to be from Helen someone?? Conservative MP. She did at least recognise the concerns were real and should be discussed.

Yes, Lib Dem response made me really really annoyed. The saying we need to turn it around bit and look at things from the trans perspective.

Thanks, Michelle, good points. I think we need to fight for the EA, and the repeal of the GRA.

BBC R4 Chickens Hour

Hello, chicken on the line. The chickens are concerned that Lib Dem proposals to protect some foxes, actually allow all the foxes into the hen house and, although we like foxes generally speaking, we might need to think of an alternative solution? What do you think?

LD: Well let's turn this around and look at how many sad foxes are being chased around the place. It's awful for some foxes, they are suffering horribly and need to be kept safe. This is not about chickens. The chickens need to shush and let all the foxes in and stop being MEAN.

Oh look, we've run out of time! Don't worry chickens, at least you've been heard.

"we need to flip this around and think about the trans people".

Why?
Why not listen to women's concerns for once?
Why do you want men to be able to claim that they are women - why is that a priority?

The removal of sex as a recognised characteristic has been the goal of trans privileges activists since day one. Any 'updating' of the EA has to be spelled out clearly by the parties proposing it, because they might well mean replacing 'sex' with 'gender identity'. Stonewall wants it, so it's got to be a progressive thing to do, right? Right?
Muppets.

These MPs who have joined Lib Dems in recent months would have been better off joining / staying in Change UK or whatever it's called these days. The Lib Dems' genderist policies make them all sound a bit unhinged.

Just listened again, actually the SNP did affirm (albeit in a vague woolly way) that the EA exemptions were important - just talked a bit vaguely about it being a decade old (so what?!), and didn't commit to an answer either way or address the actual question.

LD also talking about how it's only a few insignificant numbers blah blah (cos of course it doesn't really matter if it's only one rapist in a women's prison does it?). And going on about violence towards trans people... which, as at least Jane Garvey pointed out, doesn't come from women!

Delurking very briefly to say the caller was me.

Thank you to all the intelligent, thoughtful women whose posts on these boards helped me form my views over the last few months and frame my question today. Some aspects of the debate I feel more strongly about than others but the fundamental issue for me is that it must be discussed openly in the political arena.

I was gobsmacked, and not a little nervous, when they rang back to say they wanted me to put my question live. I hoped to refer specifically to prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms etc but, as you heard, got cut off as they rushed to get answers in before the end of the programme.

It was really very depressing to hear the LibDem completely ignore my question as to how they are going to resolve this conflict of rights. She ducked behind a whole bingo card of oft-repeated mantras - hostility and discrimination, attacks on the most vulnerable, any problems 'will almost never happen'. And continued to wave her Big Bingo Card of Mantras even when Jane Garvey tried to pin her down again with ' but what about WOMEN?!'

It's a resounding 'no' from me, Dr Wollaston. And I'm a lifelong LibDem voter and Remainer. You have completely exposed your party as unfit for political responsibility. Until you can acknowledge there are conflicting rights and needs which must be discussed and resolved in a careful, grown-up fashion you don't deserve my vote.

I'm increasingly terrified of a Labour/Lib Dem/Green coalition.

Well done for getting in with a question even though they didn't enable you to present it properly, or give it enough time, or elicit anything useful from the panel.

We've got to keep going on about this.

I'd really like to see this rock solid evidence for all the terrible violence against trans people. Because I've looked and looked and I can't find it. I'm genuinely concerned to hear there is such a huge and catastrophic tide of violent hatred and crime against trans people, upon which laws are being overhauled. But where is it?

I can see:

• Daily headlines about torture, death and violence inflicted upon women with named people, tragic events in great detail and horrifying statistics.
• Daily news about women's rights being rolled back on a global scale in policy and protocol and law

-Statistics and data that demonstrate pay gap, pension loss, inequality of opportunity, layers of oppression that stem from sex discrimination against women that is tracked and monitored over years with no improvement

• MeToo
• Impact of Brexit forecasts re female population proportionately suffering more in most areas, economic, political, social etc
• Rape conviction rates v reported 1 in 4 women being assaulted
• Online bullying and attacks against women in public positions evidenced on every platform

etc etc etc

Where are all the relevant trans statistics, data and evidence for this reported violent epidemic? There seems to be a gap in my knowledge here.

If everything is violence, and if you're continually on the look-out for it, then it's everywhere.