R4 Today

[donquixotedelamancha]

Justin is questioning a Lib Dem spokeswoman now. She's an idiot.

Isn't she just.

Completely pro self ID, even for women's refuges. Suicide brought up again. Women: just be nice.

They didn't give it enough time to challenge her silly arguments. Justin Webb says they will come back to this topic.

My MP.

A quick Google says the LD was Christine Jardine, spokeswoman for (in)justice.

I asked about self id once and got a dismissive reply. So am not surprised.

My God. Spokesperson for justice and has no concept that men might lie (even if you believe all “genuine” transwomen’s motives are true)

I spoke to my LibDem PPC about this and she was exactly the same. I think there has been a script centrally agreed that no one is going to deviate from.

We needed the follow up question, along the lines of, if we accept your position, how will you protect women from men who pretend to be trans in order to access those spaces?

Spouted the nonsense about 'better trans than dead', but in relation to the 'struggles' of a trans woman parent married to a woman, struggling with non acceptance etc

It makes me froth in a helpless fury when I see women prioritising male feelings like this, with female feelings not even apparently considered.

Why can’t these women put themselves in other women’s shoes? Why so willing to screw over their sisters? Urgh.

"Suicide", "Human rights", "we must all think about how difficult their lives are". BINGO!

Didn't talk about woman once!

At least she was clear, "Transwoman should def be allowed in women's refuges". The debate is not being hidden.

There will definitely be a central briefing script. I expect that astonishingly all of them will have spoken to a trans woman with children contemplating suicide due to non acceptance, every single LD candidate, almost as if there’s a standard case study they all use....

Even Justin Webb said he was surprised by how unequivocal she was! There was an absolute lack of nuance

I was shocked that she used one example of a transwoman and her wife whom I am sure were very sincere people without recognising that systems also need checks and balances for those who are less principled.

Do they just want all men to have access to refuges? Those refuges exist because not all men can be trusted. How do women tell the difference between a genuine man who says he's a woman and a man who says he's a woman to get access to women?

When will a journalist ask the killer follow up question;

What about the comfort and safety of the other women in that refuge and their possible traumatic response to a MALE BODY?!

So frustrating.

Why can't the interviewers be briefed to bring up Karen White, Davina Ayrton, Lisa Hauxwell etc, and the percentage of trans-identifying prisoners in the male estate who are in specialist prisons for sex offenders (upwards of 40%)?

Or do they not do "difficult questions aimed at politicians during a general election campaign" any more on the BBC?

My parents MP. They want to keep the Tories out and they want to keep women safe. Sadly they have to chose one over the other because of our bloody first past the post system which means a vote for any other party in their area is meaningless.

Justin should have grilled her on what "living like a woman" means.

Or do they not do "difficult questions aimed at politicians during a general election campaign" any more on the BBC?

He'd run out of time, you could hear him trying to jump in but she just talked him out.

I think both of the times he's done this he's going off the reservation, because he's tacked it on at the end of Labour and Lib Dem interviews about other things.

Hopefully if enough of us respond with positive feedback, they might give this topic a proper amount of time.

My follow up question would have been:

So the prison service did exactly the right thing putting Male rapists Karen White in a women's prison? Is women being assaulted just a necessary price for 'equality'?

It's so dangerous to pluck out the suicide line on a whim.

'Better a dead (insert xxx, anyone but a 'woman' of course).

That word is designed to close down debate. It's low, it's deceitful, it's irresponsible when thrown around without thought or care.

As somebody pointed out on the mirror thread, do we have to state this now? Talk about those women in refuges who've been beaten, raped and abused by men. Those women who contemplate taking their lives because it's an escape from their monster of a husband.

I'm fuming that once again men's hurt feelings trump the safety of vulnerable women.

Broadcasters need to stop being complicit in this.

They need to challenge back, to explore the data and as for the Lib Dems, you are disgusting.

It's interesting that it is male interviewers who are asking female politicians to explain their views. Is it just female MPs who are being trotted out to defend this centering of trans-women (even when they are, as pressed by Justin Webb today, male-bodied), pushing aside the needs of the most vulnerable women in society- ie those who have had to escape to refuges? Does the BBC think that a female interviewer asking these questions would be subject to abuse or wouldn't be taken seriously? Do Labour and the Lib Dems think that listeners will be more convinced by women who don't seem concerned about an impact on women's rights, than by a man speaking?

Actually I don't think it was such a bad thing that Justin Webb let Christine Jardine speak for so long. In trying to defend her views that male-bodied trans-women should in some cases be able to enter a woman's refuge - Jardine ended up speaking about a woman who had to accept her husband is now a 'woman' because he threatened suicide. I mean, who is the victim here?! What a ridiculous defence that was of the Lib Dem position.

I agree, HandsOffMyRights, on the relationships threads, it is often said that a partner threatening suicide to get what they want is abusive. I don't know the case Jardine was talking about- but do we have to take these threats of suicide at face-value?

I was shocked that she used one example of a transwoman and her wife

Interesting scenario for a refuge

I agree that it is positive that the Lib Dems are being honest about this policy. Layla Moran did respond to me about this and simply said she supported the GRA. She would have had my vote if that were the limit of the policy but shes lost it now. I think she'll still be elected but not with my help.