Hello any new people to these Mumsnet FWR fields...

[pombear]

You may have got here via twitter threads on today's employment tribunal.

Or you've seen a couple of women's talks or events, women's voices, women's art, yet again, be attacked and closed down by trans rights activists who want (mainly) women to stop talking about things they don't agree with. Those women might not be even actually 'talking'. they just happened to retweet opinions that other's don't like.

Maybe you're just horrified that a 'parenting site' could host 'bigots' and 'phobes' and you've just come for a look around to see how awful women can be?

A couple of things:

a) the discussion about concern for women's rights has been going on on this board for many years. Some people will use acronyms you might not be familiar with. Some people may say things that seem a bit 'wtf' to you - many of them have been involved in debate for many years and have had many discussions about the same themes you may be keen to explore. They might be a bit tired!

b) this is not a 'hive mind'. There are people here with a range of views. The great thing about this site is we're able to talk about that range of views, and discuss them (within the, at times, unfathomable rules). Take a look. Read some threads. Though, If you're looking for a 'safe space' in today's speak, this isn't it. Lots of opinions are voiced, from all aspects, some that you might not like.

Maybe take a look at this type of thread for nuanced and intelligent debate:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3738164-Fracks-reference-post

Or this one, for a great overview of the issues:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

c) This point might be difficult for those of you who have been told from other sources that this is an 'anti-trans site'. Women's rights do not = 'anti-trans'.

I know, right? It's a bit controversial!

If you give yourself time to read the linked threads above, or just wander around these boards, you may understand why this statement is true.

Take some time to hear many women's concerns about single-sex spaces, women's privacy and dignity, support for the need for single-sex women's prisons, women's refuges, and the concern for the health of young children who have gender dysphoria.

There are a couple of threads right now about women being 'de-platformed' and removed from talks, flights, etc.

Why not take a minute to actually go and look at what those women are actually saying. Many of us might not agree with everything they say - we're all different. We've been able to disagree on this site.

What world would you like to inhabit?

One that is allowed to discuss these issues.

Or one that is told that to discuss the reality of sex is either an illogical fallacy, a conspiracy theory cooked up in the '70s, a 'young belief', or wrong unless you're schooled by mainly older males who now present and identify as women.

From my experience, this board welcomes many perspectives. If people disagree, that's not a 'pile-on' , that's just something we used to call 'lots of people disagree with your opinion'.

Great post.

Hi to any FWR newbies 👋

Great post. I have to say, I asked questions v naively, sometimes not getting it (and sometimes I don't still) and was never put down. Am in awe of the wonderful people (mainly women) on this board.
What do they say, "you are born knowing nothing and each day you learn something more".

Great post pom. Welcome newbies! You might also find the transwidows threads illuminating, to see something of the other side of the “stunning and brave” narrative, the forgotten collateral damage of those transwomen who come to transhood later in life. They certainly give the lie to the idea that every transperson is a tortured victim of gender dysphoria.

If you want to see what happens when women are given permission by a judge to tweet and, by implication, discuss a current court case about women’s rights as the judge feels this is important for open justice, then read this thread (currently locked down and not accepting new tweets): www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3747575-maya-forstater-case-thread-2-for-the-mumsnet-massive

Hi and thank you

Thanks for the thread.

Hope you've got crampons for the Peak, newbies. Welcome.

A warm welcome to newcomers, whoever you are. Genuine enquiries welcome. And if you come bearing a new TRA/AWA argument, bring your A-game, because we've had lots of practice.

Great post pombear. Ah, it's good to be back.

Hello everybody - waving from the trenches of academia where normal feminist arguments now attract complaints and the threat of disciplinary action.

Great post pom

I absolutely love this board. It’s stuffed to the gills with fiercely intelligent, funny women who have no fucks left to give for any nonsense. They are, however, the only people in the world I would trust the safeguarding of my child to as they are currently the only people who seem to think that safeguarding matters.

@Birdsfoottrefoil I was wondering why I couldn't respond. Perhaps the nightwatch are erring on the side of MN caution.

Thanks for the post. I've been dipping a toe into these waters and reading these threads for a while now.

I live in a rural backwater, and so many of these issues have passed me by because they just don't happen here. It's great to have my eyes opened, to all sides of the arguments.

(Waves at new posters)

There's a lot to digest here because we've been talking this out for a long time, but people are generally helpful about providing links if asked.

Perhaps the nightwatch are erring on the side of MN caution.

Despite the myriad posts, including from some who were actually in court over the last few days, stating that everything discussed in the tribunal was a matter of public record, that no reporting restrictions are in place and that the judge himself allowed live tweeting on the grounds that “open justice” is of paramount importance. But we’re not allowed to talk about the most important case for the future of women’s rights, possibly ever.

Could someone give me a sip of water, this gag is making my mouth very dry...

@midcenturylegs Nothing to do with Nightwatch. Our powers don't extend to locking threads

Welcome new people

Am not particularly new but frequently AWOL. What is this employment tribunal please? I have missed a lot lately.

And thank you for the thread Pombear :)

Sorry to be a bit negative but if I had read this when I first joined last year I would have seriously thought about not bothering. The whole point of a discussion board is to be able to discuss not be "directed".

Anyone person's idea of what is a good example could easily turn someone else off.

First of all this is meant to be about feminism and women's rights. personally I think the challenges to women's rights by trans rights is very serious, but it doesn't mean I think that is all that needs to be talked about.

The inability of mumsnet to be engaged on the totality of women's rights is one of the reasons it gets a bad name as it appears to be severly restricted to an obsessive focus, almost as a way of ignoring everything else.

The last thing any forum needs is only for those who already agree to sign up.

Far better to direct newbies to places where there are more succinct summaries of issues eg WPUK, Fair Play for Women, Nordic Model Now.

What mumsnet offers is the opportunity to have a more wide ranging discussion about issues on a chit chat level.

What would be useful for newbies is a link to a reference sheet of acronyms.

So welcome nebies.

But please do not think because current users have a single focus that that is all you can post about.

Why not break the mold and start threads on all the other issues you think are discriminating against women and their / our rights.

Well now you've said it, stumbledin, and fair point it is too. On the first page still, so this is quite a useful, bumpable intro thread, methinks.

This thread is about the tribunal, beestripey.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3747575-maya-forstater-case-thread-2-for-the-mumsnet-massive

Absolutely barking mad that someone can be dragged into a tribunal over this stuff.

Because, tbh, a lot of newbies do come here and say they feel a bit overwhelmed and would welcome an accessible primer for the current hot topics, which I think pombear has provided with the linked threads too.

Why the fucking fuck has the MF thread been locked? FFS!

I really appreciate the FWR boards, thank you.

I too see your point stumbledin.

Wasn't meaning to stifle or direct the wider FWR converstation - the last thing I'd want to do. Was just welcoming newbies who may be here due to current issues.

Maybe someone would like to do the reference sheet (lazy here, just out of bed getting a drink of water and looked at thread again! Night all!)

@EineKleineNachtwatcher I was possibly clutching at straws and hoping it was just your good selves!

@stumbledin good point. This is only from my personal perspective - but I started on this trail by reading fairplayforwomen.com DD being in a club sports where her slightly older (15 yr olds) peers are grumbling about their County aspirations not being worth hoping for because trans women are dominating.

Also frustrated by the glass ceiling working Mums face. I'm ok, but I see other women trumped for jobs because men generally can work those longer hours, commit to jobs with long commutes etc because the fathers in our kids' lives feel their job is too "IMPORTANT"

Thank you ProdigalKittens. I have not manged to read that thread yet. I am way behind.

FWR is an amazing place made by amazing women. One of my big fears is women feeling forced to go away from this board and the vital knowledge and discussion being scattered across the net, it took me too long to find you as it is.