Hello any new people to these Mumsnet FWR fields...

[pombear]

You may have got here via twitter threads on today's employment tribunal.

Or you've seen a couple of women's talks or events, women's voices, women's art, yet again, be attacked and closed down by trans rights activists who want (mainly) women to stop talking about things they don't agree with. Those women might not be even actually 'talking'. they just happened to retweet opinions that other's don't like.

Maybe you're just horrified that a 'parenting site' could host 'bigots' and 'phobes' and you've just come for a look around to see how awful women can be?

A couple of things:

a) the discussion about concern for women's rights has been going on on this board for many years. Some people will use acronyms you might not be familiar with. Some people may say things that seem a bit 'wtf' to you - many of them have been involved in debate for many years and have had many discussions about the same themes you may be keen to explore. They might be a bit tired!

b) this is not a 'hive mind'. There are people here with a range of views. The great thing about this site is we're able to talk about that range of views, and discuss them (within the, at times, unfathomable rules). Take a look. Read some threads. Though, If you're looking for a 'safe space' in today's speak, this isn't it. Lots of opinions are voiced, from all aspects, some that you might not like.

Maybe take a look at this type of thread for nuanced and intelligent debate:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3738164-Fracks-reference-post

Or this one, for a great overview of the issues:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

c) This point might be difficult for those of you who have been told from other sources that this is an 'anti-trans site'. Women's rights do not = 'anti-trans'.

I know, right? It's a bit controversial!

If you give yourself time to read the linked threads above, or just wander around these boards, you may understand why this statement is true.

Take some time to hear many women's concerns about single-sex spaces, women's privacy and dignity, support for the need for single-sex women's prisons, women's refuges, and the concern for the health of young children who have gender dysphoria.

There are a couple of threads right now about women being 'de-platformed' and removed from talks, flights, etc.

Why not take a minute to actually go and look at what those women are actually saying. Many of us might not agree with everything they say - we're all different. We've been able to disagree on this site.

What world would you like to inhabit?

One that is allowed to discuss these issues.

Or one that is told that to discuss the reality of sex is either an illogical fallacy, a conspiracy theory cooked up in the '70s, a 'young belief', or wrong unless you're schooled by mainly older males who now present and identify as women.

From my experience, this board welcomes many perspectives. If people disagree, that's not a 'pile-on' , that's just something we used to call 'lots of people disagree with your opinion'.

Maybe if we form a fan club, she'll come out drinking with us. Get the fangirl pom-poms ready!

Her Twitter feed is wonderful - sharp, witty, direct. Very direct.

Hi All,

Thank you for the welcome. I'm relatively new to this forum and have been watching with increasing alarm, developments in society whereby trans rights are being promoted and supported to the detremint of the female population.

I honestly feel like i've been asleep for the past 25 years.

During my formative years, 2nd wave feminists were my teachers and mentors.

My generation was fortunate as we reaped the benefits are their struggles and hard-won victories.

By the time i started uni in early 90's and became more politically aware, it still seemed as though there was so much more to do (although agreeing on how was problematic as feminists from different schools of thought did not always agree - at least there was healthy debate).

Fast foward 20 years and i cant belive we have come to a situation whereby female bodies are being theorised out of existance. How on earth did we get here?

I have 2 young daughters, and although i don't reside in U.K., i've been following Maya's legal battle, and to be honest, my over-riding emotion is fear, rather than anger. I know I need to get angry.

Maybe if we form a fan club, she'll come out drinking with us. Get the fangirl pom-poms ready!

Um... women who were summarily banned on live threads for not being sufficiently deferential to Woke female politicians might be going for the gossip angle rather than the pom poms one!

Hence the (naughty) sniggering.

Not new - I've been on mn since I was expecting my first child years ago - but I don't post very often. Wanted to say it's a lifeline to be able to read open discussion on what it means to be female in these crazy times.

It's heartening so see so many new names here. It demonstrates that we have a valid point when we ask for threads threatened with deletion to stay "for the lurkers".

Isn't the general rule of the internet that for every 1 person who comments another 9 are reading and just not saying anything?

(Go on, say hello, doesn't need to be anything more than that if you're not comfortable.)

Thank you for the welcome. I've been here just a short time but found it very helpful to clarify many things going on in my head at this time. I have tried to explain elsewhere about questioning the transwomen are women belief, and have been called the usual names and labelled a bigot. Oddly enough by other women. I'm sure we all know the super-woke type.

Some months ago when I first read the TWAW stuff I didn't see a problem, I'm very open to diverse lifestyles and thought transwomen just wanted to be left to live their life peacefully, which is fair. And most of them (I'm guessing here) probably do want just that. But then cases like RMcK and JY pop up and I'm like wtf, no! And when I try to illustrate the problems with self-id (prisons is another issue) they say those people don't represent trans issues at large. Are these people so willing to throw women under the bus just to stay woke or are they willfully ignorant?

In a nutshell that's why I joined. To talk with other sane people.

Another relative newbie here. I've always been more of a lurker on MN and only discovered these boards a while ago. I've gained a lot from reading various discussions and I am in awe of how erudite the contributors are.

I suppose I'm reluctant to get involved more because I am conscious of being new to this. I guess I've always been in tune with feminism without labelling myself a feminist. Having a daughter and being a peri-memopausal woman have probably helped to cement this.

I will continue to read these boards as it helps me to know I am not alone and others share my fears in respect of the erosion of women's sex based rights.

Another newbie to this board even though I've been on MN for years and through several name changes.

I ended up here because of the M&S changing room threads and have been reading in horror ever since.

Up thread someone said there is nothing to stop anyone posting on issues of importance to women other than trans issues.

And of course they (and I do). But, and maybe this is where the "hive mind" tag comes from. Most on the feminism chat thread dont want to talk about anything other than trans issues.

And many of the threads are more comparing the depths to which trans activists will go to smear women and erase lesbians. But rarely talk about how to counter this. Which is why I suggested to linking to campaigning resources such as WPUK, FPfW etc..

But on the other hand, collectively mumsnetters have an ability (or time?) to sniff out any number of stories, online links, or examples of trans extremism.

Was thinking what might be useful is to have a new post for each day where anything that comes up in that day is listed, but is someone wants it discussed they create its own post with the link in the daily index page. This way over a week, a month, a year we would get some idea of just how relentless the trans campaign is.

As the moment because the forum isn't set up for threaded threads it is virtually impossible to track down older stories.

(Or mumsnet FWR board could advertise for a volunteer researcher to trawl through older threads, some of which are exceedly long and drift off topic, and pull out the links / issues contained within them to create a database of "facts" that would be searchable. Also useful for the prosed feminist think tank?)

stumbledin, it's an interesting idea, but I am certain I don't have the time for that, as I'm already juggling a job, a home and family and activist work.
The set up on MN Talk format as a whole does limit what can be done, of course. And the fact that we've already been told we can't do a sticky which might be helpful. I think bumping this sort of welcome/primer is probably as good as it gets in this format, but your idea is certainly worth exploring.

In fact the idea came more from the telly addicts where some series are so popular they have a thread for each episode shown.

So all it needs is for the early birds on FWR / feminism chat to start a thread eg Wednesday 20 November 2019 - today's highlights, saying just post a news story or announcement of signifigance. If you want it discussed created a post and add the link to it here. or something like that.

But yes, and I know I have done it, most of us dont have time to regulary look as see what has been posted earlier in the day.

Then it would be easier to look back as see what news story first came up, etc..

Most on the feminism chat thread dont want to talk about anything other than trans issues

Take your point. But I suppose for me, this is one of the few places I can vent with relative safety.

Thing is, the “Transwomen are women #nodebate” mantra goes to the absolute fundamentals of being a woman and of feminism.

This is a case of middle-aged privileged MEN telling women - once again and for the gazillionth time - who they are and what they can talk about. TRAs are trying to change (obliterate) the fundamental definition of what it is to be a woman.

It’s a pretty fundamental boundary.

Long time lurker, more recent poster, academic, so disallusioned with my surroundings now and having to stfu to keep my job. .
Also getting lots of backlash for saying GC stuff on my personal sm. And really dislike being called cis, Terf or bigot. I am none of these.

Great post Pom.

I wish I had more confidence to post a bit more here but I just post now and then and rarely actually contribute anything to the discussion. Unless it's something I actually know and feel sure about. So many intelligent, articulate women here that my contributions aren't necessary, but I do read every day.

Not that you have to post if you don't want to, but everyone's contributions are valuable! Well, other than the sealions, cause "arf" isn't that interesting.

Hi, thanks for this thread. I've been lurking around the board and reading for ages.

Probably will not become and active contributor/that involved in conversations as am not great with managing my limited time. However, will continue to read and inform myself.

Wanted to let you all know that I have found this board really informative with some extremely eloquent (and patient!) posters and the board has really helped me to become much more confident and articulate in understanding/defending my position which previously was more of a "gut instinct".

I grew up in the 80s in rural Scandinavia and by today's standards some parents (definitely not my mum though!) would absolutely have medicalised me. I also have a niece who is becoming a teenager and has been caught in the transgender mess in a manner which to me sadly looks like social contagion at her school and reminds me of a period when eating disorders really suddenly peaked at my school when I was in my teens. She is vulnerable, struggling with entering teenage years and she's struggling with gender stereotypes associated with "females" but she certainly does not need hormone blockers! What I'm seeing is really breaking my heart.

Finally, as a new mum of a little son, this board gives me confidence in how to raise him up so that he understands his biological sex but is not burdened by gender stereotypes.

I also have a niece who is becoming a teenager and has been caught in the transgender mess in a manner which to me sadly looks like social contagion at her school and reminds me of a period when eating disorders really suddenly peaked at my school when I was in my teens. She is vulnerable, struggling with entering teenage years and she's struggling with gender stereotypes associated with "females" but she certainly does not need hormone blockers! What I'm seeing is really breaking my heart

Apples24 - I'm watching a niece become a nephew, with testosterone shots (at 17! who knows what it's doing to her body's health) and my SiL cheerleading - my SiL kept the whole thing from her husband (my brother & the father of this child) for a whole year. I find that unthinkable - but I can't say anything - just have to watch impotently ...

Just delurked to say hello. Following the FWR forum for a few months with interest. I work in a university and am concerned about not being able to speak out about these issues. Thanks for the thread.

Welcome CatteSt