Labour and self ID

[Chiochan]

Does anyone know if self ID is in the Labour party manifesto or not?

The manifesto has not yet been released.

It was in the 2017 manifesto and Dawn Butler (and others) have said it will also be in this one. I think we can call it a done deal.

But you'll have to wait for release. It'll be here at some point:

labour.org.uk/manifesto-2019/

Thanks. I was thinking maybe, just maybe, all the furor over the treatment of WPUK at the conference may have shined enough light on the issue for people to wake up some but I'm probably deluding myself.

I mean, you can wait if you like - but it's going to be there. Sorry!

Incidently, observations while canvasing with the young and woke; on the ground, in the Labour party I am begining to think this movement would be nowhere without the 'allies' - almost always extreamly confident young women, a bit posh, well educated, very leftie - as long as you dont count women as people who matter.
And it struck me that in the years to come these young women will have moved on to careers, either in politics or not, families, children ect.
But their much more vulnerable looking, a lot less confident, gender confused male and female counterparts, you know the ones they care so passitionatly about, will still be living the nightmare of disability, sterility and alination...with friend like these and all that.

I think unfortunately the Labour Party has changed beyond recognition in many ways, it has become a part of the hard left rather than moderate or centre left. I hope one day it returns to its roots of working to help the working class and people who are genuinely disadvantaged, but I can't see that happening for at least several years.

I think their behaviour over all women shortlists and the Jo Cox program demonstrates that they do not support women's rights, and will introduce self ID.
And that's why they have lost my vote. I'm disgusted that they place trashing women's rights over other issues such as selling the NHS.

It won't be in any manifesto, it isn't something any party would try standing openly behind to the general public because they know what the response will be. Once in power, it'll be slipped through. Labour/Lib Dem/Green full blown self ID, Conservatives at the moment look like saying they've kicked it into the long grass but looking the other way and whistling nonchalantly while it gets done by stealth and regulatory capture.

See Stephen Whittle's comments: the plans are and have always been to try and slip it all through with no one noticing and especially not the press.

I think you are very right about the intention being to slip it all through/enshrine the loss of rights in law before anyone notices.
I was thinking though that people are starting to notice, thanks to places like MN/Spinster and organisations like WPUK (I dont think I can express enough how much admirration I have for WPUK) and that this might give the LP pause before puting self ID in the manifesto.

I urge anyone reading this to quizz any LP canvessers extensively on this issue and please say it is this issue that is stopping you from voting Labour. Comments are noted on the canvassing sheets and if enough of the same comment are made it gets back to MPs

I also think the Conservatives will put it through asap on the quiet if they get in again, I think the fact they are not crusifying Labour over this shows they are as committed to advancing mens sex rights as much as Labour, the Greens, and the LibDems.
Fuck the lot of them really. This world is nothing without women.Id like to see them try to manage without women, which, I guess is where they think they're heading. They are all a fucking joke.

I agree Chiochan. I also think it's particularly depressing to see these wealthy women with secure well paying jobs go woke and back men having access to women's spaces, spaces they will likely never need to access themselves such as domestic violence refuges and public toilets in dodgy bus stations.

Increasingly I am seeing this as a class war as well as a war on women, because poor women are being disproportionately affected.

Do these women in power simply lack empathy, are they naive, short sighted or just so power hungry they can't see this/don't care? I find it hard to understand how they can go ahead with this and think it's fair.

The problem with manifestos is that you can put any old shit in them really, they are not legally binding, and you could come to power promising the world and not deliver on any of it once you take office. Of course it would probably mean that you wouldn’t be re-elected, but there is no guarantee of that.

The following two paragraphs were taken from the last LP manifesto, pages 109 and 111;

*A Labour government will gender audit all policy and legislation
for its impact on women before implementation.

And

A Labour government will reform the Gender Recognition Act and the Equality Act 2010 to ensure they protect Trans people by changing the protected characteristic of ‘gender assignment’ to ‘gender identity’ and remove other outdated language such as ‘transsexual’.*

Clearly impossible to do both of these.
Of course, who knows (well actually we probably do know) what ‘gender’ audit means.......

I do think that there will be a clear statement of intent as per the above GRA para in the new LP manifesto. I think it will be offset by a slightly stronger para on women’s rights, so we will be left non the wiser.

Well Labour MPs now self ID as Tory anyway so probably ;)

Camilla Long in this evening's Times discussing Labour and self ID
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thanks-jeremy-but-we-working-women-will-give-the-weeping-and-wailing-room-a-miss-hwq38862c

Bessy thank you. I have enjoyed reading that