We Can't Consent to this - choking research

[WomanDaresTo]

Hello you excellent lot.

Fiona from We Can't Consent To This here.

We're appalled by [[https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/25/fatal-hateful-rise-of-choking-during-sex
the rise of choking]] and other unbidden violence and abuse of women in sex. We're keen to hear women's stories so we can start to show the scale of the problem - if you'd be prepared to share your story in writing or recording, or know women who would, you can use our contact form at the bottom of wecantconsenttothis.uk/aboutus or on twitter DM twitter.com/Wecantconsentto?s=09

(Or on here)

We think this has become an appallingly common experience, particularly (but not only) for young women.

Thank you in advance

Huge for your experiences all.

I think this is such a terrifying thing - and has obviously been an issue for some time.

I will check with you before I use your words in what we publish. If you're happy for us to share your words, I've set up a place you can submit them here:

wecantconsenttothis.uk/our-stories

Another control group gimmer I'm afraid, 44 and relatively experienced pre-DH. No choking or attempts to choke ever, one request for anal in 10 years+ of relationships/dating/ONS. Some good experiences, some bad but never anything violent, I cringe when I think about the danger I put myself in (going home with men I'd met that night etc) and count myself lucky nothing catastrophic happened to me, but it terrifies me what my DD might have to face so thank you for doing this Fiona

Namechanged.

I am in my early 40s and have recently finished a short relationship with a 45 year old man.

The first time we DtD I was left pretty shaken. It felt very full-on. Not violent, but very aggressive. He stuck half his hand up my bum with absolutely no warning. This was our 4th date and he had seemed totally gentle and respectful up until then. I wasn't expecting he first time to feel like an assault.

I pushed the discomfort away thinking it might have been me being over-sensitive. It was so at odds with what I know about him as a person that I couldn't square it - I thought maybe he has a kink that I should talk to him about rather than jump to conclusions.

So I carried on seeing him, but things got worse. He would slap me round the face, call me a fucking whore and started to strangle me. Each time I froze solid. Each time, I tried to make it ok in my own mind and told myself it was just pretending and didn't mean anything - which was helped by how gentle and tender he always was immediately afterwards.

But I hated that I was being such a doormat about it - and finished it. The cognitive dissonance of trying to understand how someone would find demeaning and humiliating his partner a turn-on defeated me.

This is the first time I've even had anything like it. It was deeply uncomfortable.

I suspect porn use too.

Mid 30's here.

Had one boyfriend that wanted to trash talk me during sex and slap me. The worst thing was that there was no discussion about it or even an inkling that he was into that. He just randomly started one day during sex. It didn't last.

My best friend used to work as a cam girl,the things that men want to see and get off on women doing and saying is chilling, as was the escalation of some of the request getting more and more violent and demeaning as time went on,and other requests were fulfilled.

Maud what you're describing is a behaviour pattern (which I think is a form of grooming) which friends in the BDSM scene euphemistically refer to as "aftercare." The idea seems to be that an abusive man can put you through any shit he gets off on so long as he's "nice" to you immediately afterwards.

I say grooming behaviour because it bears a startling resemblance to the cycle of abuse, albeit over a timescale of tens of minutes rather than tens of days. It also encourages a form of trauma bonding.

The subs in BDSM are desperately in need of really good, professional, long term therapy IMO, not "acceptance" of their kink.

It's interesting how you didn't even have to be a sub to put up with this, your female socialisation did the same job (I say that in a "there but for the grace of the flying spaghetti monster go I" sort of way).

Thank you Barbara.

I actually felt a bit vulnerable after writing that. I was expecting lots of 'why didn't you tell him to fuck off?' 'Why didn't you get the hell out of there?' 'What the hell were you thinking?' Type responses.

Yours made me feel a bit less like I allowed it to happen because I'm weak (although that's still how I feel about it).

It was just that he is so intelligent, sensitive, caring and compassionate in every other sphere of his life. It's just in a sexual context that the violence and hate comes out - and it's easy to put that down to role-playing...

The problem is that the actual violence of it isn't pretend. He actually did have his hands around my throat. He actually did slap me hard around the face and leave bruises on me. It wasn't getting off on an idea - it was getting off on violence towards the very person he should have felt most loving and protective towards.

And I couldn't make sense of it - which is why it took me so long to decide that no, it's not acceptable and I don't have to take that on as part of my own sex life just to please him.

God I feel so pathetic. It's one of those situations where I know full well what I'd say to a friend - yet I wanted it all to be ok.

I’m younger (36) but have only had 2 sexual partners, only one for last 18 years (relationship started in college). Both sweet boys/men who would never hurt me unless I specifically asked for it. Most extreme has been anal and we were both curious to try it, found it to be fine but nothing that special. Wouldn’t want to be dating now.

Maud there’s nothing for you to feel pathetic about. He is the horrible abusive fucker who gets off on hurting women, not you. These men know how to get away with it as well. They know how to push you just far enough that you question yourself rather than them. As Barbara says, it’s grooming.

50, but I last had a new partner when I was 28 and now single after LTR. Never had any choking attempts or requests. One attempted rape when I was 18, but he was drunk and I was stronger than him, so luckily was able to shove him off and kick him out.

I am very aware that as internet porn and misogyny has escalated since I was last on the market, the porn-esque demands are something I might have to deal with now and it does put me off dating.

In my 20s (so in the 90s) I had several boyfriends and a couple of one night stands - all polite and respectful. No one batted an eyelid that I had pubic hair or would only have sex with a condom. (One ONS got a blow job and couldn't believe his luck. In the morning he cooked breakfast then drove me home all the way across London. Irrelevant to this but just reminiscing!)

I’m nearly 40 and had several sexual partners (and been married twice etc) and never had anyone try to choke me.

Late 20's and recently out of a LTR with the father of my children (same age) he was into choking, rough sex, spitting etc.

This is an important thread, OP, and thanks for starting it.

I'm 48. Married 20+ yrs. Very sexually active with a fair few partners in the late 80s/90s.

I have never been choked by any partner.

In the 90s I was aware of "auto-asphyxiation" - a politician in the UK died from it, and of course, Michael Hutchence possibly died from it.

It was seen as a dangerous thing - and something men did to themselves to get off.

IMO - strangling a woman during sex is 100% violence against women and should never be acceptable.

I'm terrified of this, and the effect of this culture on my daughter

I need to add that when I think about it, any ONS were never such as sex was not even expected. I would have had countless ONS if so, at uni and in my 20s. All partners never even assumed sex, clearly waited for cues and mostly it was touching and kissing and then just sleeping.

The only time I feel I was almost sexually assaulted was when a guy was attempting to penetrate while I was saying no. He gave up and seemed confused, as was I, and I threw him out. He was younger and I wondered if he simply thought I'd consented - all other encounters I've ever had, consent has been extremely explicit.

I note this mainly as it occurs to me that the level of respect I've had from my peer group is way beyond what young women appear to get these days, without even mentioning choking.

Neurotrash I agree about the respect aspect. I’ve had probably around 40 sexual partners and they really have for the most part been very nice men who were respectful, consent was explicit and they definitely tried to make sure I was having a good time too. I have cousins who are 10+ years younger than me and the things they talk about so casually are absolutely hair-raising. They seem to have a very low expectation of men, there’s been a lot of talk about porn use during sex and none of them think it’s strange to be asked for things I would consider to be hardcore BDSM. Lots of requests for threesomes as well.

My ex enjoyed being quite dominant during sex and would put his hands around my neck and pull my hair. I have to admit I enjoyed it and would like DP to do it too. He does sometimes grab the back of my neck.

Never once did it feel out of control though. I never felt unsafe.

Mid 50s here, so another oldie, and another married for nearly 30 years to a man who actually likes me and respects me and who doesn't want to kill me, choke me, strangle me, dominate me, control me, humiliate me or scare me.

If he did, he'd have some very interesting and lethal additions to his dinner. It'd be worth doing time over.

I was once on a second date with a very handsome/charming man. Evening went well, then he kissed me. Stood behind me, put his arm around my neck and squeezed my neck with the inside of his elbow as he moved his face to my right side and then kissed me. Then asked me to come back with him to his place.

I said no and refused his invitation for a second date. My instinct told me that this kiss told me everything I needed to know about his sexual preferences.

41 here, pre 20 yr marriage (and in marriage) nothing like that.

Post divorce dating 3 years - 4 men have gone for hands round neck in consensual sex without asking.

Many many have mentioned anal before ever meeting (and I haven’t met them and I don’t do it).

1 man, and I won’t go into too much detail but some may recognise me from previous threads, as I’m fighting with the centre for women’s justice to take it forward, has beaten me badly, anal and vaginal rape, fisting, choking, made to vomit and stop breathing on his penis while holding hair and nose. Etc. Police initial response was to reject the case on the basis of “there is a grey area in the amount of violence allowed because it involves sex, apparently ABH is ok so long as they have sex with you while doing it. This is despite evidence in the form of serious physical damage, blood in his home etc.

So yes to me times have bloody changed!

Brass, that is horrific.

Oh should mention, I’m an asthmatic, so there but for the grace of god and all that.

I'm so sorry for what you went through Brass.

I think that's the most frustrating and terrifying thing about it all. That no matter how much we say no,how many campaigns we do,how much awareness we raise etc until the police,CPS,lawmakers and juries start doing their jobs properly,there will be no change.

ATM the system is severely skewed towards protecting men and literally anything goes..from I slipped and fell to she wanted it/made me do it.

Maud, that's horrendous. I'm so sorry.

And, Brass, too, sorry, commenting before I got to the end of thread. I'm so sorry.