Oh look, it's those guidelines making no sense whatsoever again!

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

So, I got an email about a comment in which I said that I wanted to know why genderists keep comparing trans identified males to black women and lesbians being deleted. I think this is absolutely barmy, and have said so to HQ. I'm also baffled as to how this breaks any guidelines and thought perhaps it was time for us as a group to revisit the guidelines and explain once more to MNHQ why they're not working.

What's actually happening here is the the obsessive trans activists who monitor this site are attempting to pick off posters one by one. We lost Orchid last week, and she was just the most recent of many. I'm not sure in MNHQ realize that's happening and welcome it or if it's somehow escaped their notice, but it's a pretty messed up thing for them to be allowing to happen to their users, in my opinion. Are they going to allow this to continue until the only commenters left in this forum are the TRAs who want the entire site shut down?

I know the people who despise the women here would very much like this to all happen under the radar, and that's exactly why I'm not allowing it to play out that way.

Thank you lurkers x

More please, if you can x Now is the time.

(And I LOVE that two f you were there just like that THANK YOU) Come on women! Everything is at stake here. STAND UP! Have your say on a forum that is supposedly woman-centric.

Talking, so much of what you wrote in your amazing post is exactly what I'd love to communicate with friends on social media, but the MN backdrop would lose them. Would you consider writing a second version so that it could be shareable with folks who aren't on MN? I just feel it it's such excellent wording that it seems a shame for it to only be seen here when it could have an even wider impact. Thanks so much .

I couldn't believe that thread had been deleted. All that work, all that research. I didn't see the final stuff that led to a deletion.

From a lurker that reads almost everything, and sometimes joins in.

@Ibloodylovewomen
Talking's post is on Facebook, angry resisters have shared it, so has >whisper> Posie Parker. I've printed it out here at home and I'm planning to use most of it to send to my current MP and the other candidates in the upcoming General Election. I've copied it so I could try and do you with the text if you wanted me to.

Thanks Boxers. I was cheekily hoping she might tweak it to remove the Mumsnet context, since really she's talking about how the guidance here is just a continuation of what is happening to women elsewhere. I thought it would have more impact as a stand-alone piece then. But would understand if she didn't want to do that .

I saved Talking's post and e-mailed it to my DH with SEE? SEE what's happening! This will affect your daughter! for good measure. Tbf, he is completely on board already.

Oh, Frack's thread has been deleted? The thread in which the second someone started speculating about Frack's identity I told them to knock it off because that's not who we are? And in which several of us pointed out that the reason for the speculation about Frack's identity was most likely because someone wanted that thread gone?

If so many of us, independent of each other, can see what's happening and how the reporting system is being weaponized then why can't the people who are paid to handle the reports see it? It's not as if it's terribly subtle.

The only other reason Frack's thread could have been deleted was because of frank discussion of Jazz Jennings, but nothing was discussed that isn't already in the public domain- put there by Jazz and Jazz's family.

No, the deletion message is clear about the discussion around doxxing. There was no doxxing. One brand new poster was speculating. That person could have been deleted. In hindsight I could have reported that poster specifically, but I think there was a determined effort regardless.

What did the deletion message say?

Deletion message says

Message from MNHQ: We're taking this down now as we think some of the discussion around doxxing is breaking the guidelines

That thread being deleted is a travesty. All that work and expertise

Please, please reinstate MNHQ

The deletion message just makes no sense as a reason to delete the whole thread

Excellent post Talking . Thank you for explaining it so eloquently

Superb post Talking. I, like many many many others mainly lurk on here - I often don't have the time to contribute to the discussion when so many very eloquent people make my points before I can (and much better). I only post occasionally, and I'm beyond angry that the whole thread, with so much useful information was deleted for such a pathetic reason.

If @MNHQ do consider reinstating the Reference thread, (which I hope they do) I'd suggest they have a look behind the scenes to see how much the doxxer and the OP have in common.

And now TRA can get this thread and Talking’s excellent post deleted for being aTAAT.
How has Mumnsnet let it get to this?
I also think what happened was disgraceful MN. Disgraceful and entirely predictable. I lurk, but I’ve seen the exact thing several times in the last couple of years.

Just reminding everyone that the thread was started because Kittens got a strike for pointing out that the genderist demotion of black women as women in order to compare them to a particular set of XY people is fucking racist.

And that Orchid, a member of 14 years standing, who had never been warned or deleted until genderists came along, had her account suspended on behalf of a confused 16-year-old because the mods were incapable of recognising an obviously fake thread and then allowed a TAAT to stand with no duty of care towards the kid even recognised.

We can all give examples of our own.

Frack's thread should be reinstated, yes: but we have a much deeper problem than that.

In short - we have to tolerate the baked-in racism, sexism and homophobia of a socio-political ideology but the slightest clarity in expression of a feminist viewpoint is enthusiastically censored.

It's a sorry state of affairs and I think we all know it.

I see what's going on. This is why I semi lurk these days.
That thread from Frack turned out to be extremely informative. Absolutely shocking if it is permanently deleted.

And now TRA can get this thread and Talking’s excellent post deleted for being aTAAT.

Yes, they probably can. But try Googling Pronouns Are Rohypnol & see what comes up. Talking’s post is taking on a life beyond Mumsnet, just like Barracker’s did.

And if MN did delete it, I think that might be a very clear signal for us all to go elsewhere.

I just saw Talking's post on Spinster.

Talking’s post is taking on a life beyond Mumsnet, just like Barracker’s did.

I love that

I guess it also explains why the TRAs are so desperate to get mumsnet shut down.

Yes, they probably can. But try Googling Pronouns Are Rohypnol & see what comes up. Talking’s post is taking on a life beyond Mumsnet, just like Barracker’s did.

MNHQ - I said it earlier in the thread but I'll say it again: fabulous posts you are deleting here are going viral on other platforms, all of which have a much more significant reputation for censoring feminists than you do. And yet - they stand in those places.

So, I ask: where has this appeasement policy got you? You're still hated by genderists. They still accuse you of being a hate site. They'll never stop doing that, no matter how one-sided your application of the Special Rules for Uppity Women, no matter how many unjust strikes you send out, no matter how many threads you delete for spurious reasons.

Why? Because your website is populated by women.

Why can't you see this?

This feels so bizarre. Frack's thread was fascinating and full of relevant and intelligent posts from other posters. It should be pinned, not bloody deleted!