Oh look, it's those guidelines making no sense whatsoever again!

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

So, I got an email about a comment in which I said that I wanted to know why genderists keep comparing trans identified males to black women and lesbians being deleted. I think this is absolutely barmy, and have said so to HQ. I'm also baffled as to how this breaks any guidelines and thought perhaps it was time for us as a group to revisit the guidelines and explain once more to MNHQ why they're not working.

What's actually happening here is the the obsessive trans activists who monitor this site are attempting to pick off posters one by one. We lost Orchid last week, and she was just the most recent of many. I'm not sure in MNHQ realize that's happening and welcome it or if it's somehow escaped their notice, but it's a pretty messed up thing for them to be allowing to happen to their users, in my opinion. Are they going to allow this to continue until the only commenters left in this forum are the TRAs who want the entire site shut down?

I know the people who despise the women here would very much like this to all happen under the radar, and that's exactly why I'm not allowing it to play out that way.

A lot of good information was lost on that deleted thread. Including Janes advice to parents of dysphoric children, and rebuttals of "Fracks* "research" supporting the affirmation/medicalisation of children.

I'm extremely pissed off that @MNHQ deleted the reference thread.

I took the time to read those studies (what I could of them) and work out for myself whether they supported the position of those who advocate for the transing of children*. Because I don't want to be in an echo chamber, I do want to properly listen and understand the counter-arguments against my own position. I want proper, grown up, evidence based discussion of all the issues. I want to find all the holes in everyone's argument, including my own. We are talking about the long term health, wellbeing and safeguarding of children so we can't afford anything less than this.

There was no 'doxxing', just a mysterious new poster 'speculating'. It would have been easy to just delete those posts, ban the poster, post a warning, lock the thread or do a combination of these. You didn't have to destroy the whole thing.

I don't give a shit who Frack is, although I am tempted to speculate now, after watching this astonishing display of string-pulling.

*no, they didn't.

I'm also annoyed that the Reference thread was deleted. It was one of the most informative ones we've had in a long time but then was clearly manipulated into deletion because it didn't go the OP's way.

Wow, Frack didn't have to start that thread. Nobody asked her/him to do so. The requests have always been to ask for references on threads where discussions are happening. The way it turned out was entirely predictable though.

I wonder who will come to school the naughty mummies next. They won't be able to resist.

So, MNHQ - one poster speculating on the OP in the last page of a very LONG thread, full of extremely well thought out responses - that posters had taken time and thought to post, having read the refs that OP posted - is enough to delete the whole thread?

That is really lame. Lame. You could have just deleted the few speculative posts.

Now all a TRA has to do when they don't like a thread is speculate on the OP's rl identity then? And bang, the thread with all the well thought arguments against medicalising children is gone.

It's looking like we need to focus on saving and archiving threads with important information on. It's a good thing so many posters have already saved TalkingInTheDark's magnificent post - that would be a huge loss, and now the TRAs know what they need to do to get threads deleted it would be all too easy to lose it.

Hey lovely lurkers.

Your posts are important right now.

I remember a couple of years ago, finally braving it out to make a post after reading and reading.

Once you've got one out there, it's not as difficult as you thought it was!

And lots of other lurkers will see your post and go 'oooh', another one!

I remember almost physically 'ducking' when I pressed 'post' on my first one on this board!

It gets better! And those who have departed, or who aren't posting as much as they used to , many will love to see your voices joining them.

Something like that feels almost like coercive control of the mods, when it's so blatant.

That was replying to Empress!

Hi Tinsel - sorry if that crossed over your post.

Talking's post was incredible.

Just trying to encourage those readers out of the shadows to support this board in the light of what's happened, in particular, with that thread.

What I'm blown away by, both on that deleted thread and others, is women's ability to counter every TRA post with evidence-based rational discussion.

Not that I didn't know it already, but the real-time witnessing of proper discussion and work to do so.

To see it erased by a complaint.

Shocking.

Women. Stand Up.

I guess deleting the reference thread was the weekend mods response to this thread. I feel well and truly put in my place.

@PencilsInSpace I've been meaning to say this for ages, but I really appreciate the time and thought you put into your posts. They help me understand the relevant issues, they are balanced and comprehensive, cut through the crap and get to the points which can sometimes get lost. Please keep posting!

No worries pom, I didn't want anyone thinking I was accusing you of controlling the mods

Just to add to the throng saying what a great post talking.

A friend had been talking about how 'trans people are marginalised etc' and likened it to the experiences of black women after having read a recent book around the subject (I can't remember its name, possibly Biassed?). I was agog she could be so dismissive when I know how
much of a rad type feminist and anti gender stereotypes she is. And she simply not see the opposite link. I wanted to say all the things in talkings post but was too astounded (and at the time quite hypothyroid so not able to argue effectively).

Will save for the next time we have the chat.

Including Janes advice to parents of dysphoric children, and rebuttals of Fracks "research" supporting the affirmation/medicalisation of children

I think this is what annoys me the most. People like @JanesKettle are pouring a great deal of personal experience, heart and soul into posting on threads like that, and to just pull the thread after being manipulated is incredibly disrespectful.

Fingers crossed the deleting of the reference thread was an over zealous weekend mod, and MNHQ will reinstate it, with any necessary deletions as they would for any troll hunting type posts.

Unless deleting whole threads is how FWR will be quietly closed down.

I can’t believe that Franck’s reference post was gone! One person speculating wildly, and it disappears? Can we have it back please MNHQ?
And talking’s post was so good it should be given in staff training at MNHQ - to remind them whose “side” they should be on.

@PencilsInSpaceI've been meaning to say this for ages, but I really appreciate the time and thought you put into your posts. They help me understand the relevant issues, they are balanced and comprehensive, cut through the crap and get to the points which can sometimes get lost. Please keep posting!

Yes I agree. Pencils is brilliant. And a bit of an unsung hero. We luffs you Pencils!

Let's not beat about the bush. Frack's thread being deleted says (to me) one of two things:

A: at least some members of the mod team are actively looking for excuses to censor the feminist viewpoint, especially when it has made a genderist look bad.

or

B: at least some members of the mod team are unable to recognise the techniques used by community disruptors, even when they are blindingly obvious and/or do not have the faintest understanding of the dynamics of a forum they are employed to understand.

@MNHQ - which is it? Better still, is there a C? I really want there to be a C. If there is a C, why the radio silence?

Please, please respond - and not with a fobbing off.

Thanks.

Right, Lang. I knew that Frack/and/or/others would want that thread gone. It was too informative, too well argued. Do much so that Frack started a TAAT in aibu to try and rally support - and got.... very little.

I said on the thread before it was deleted "I hope MNHQ don't fall for it" and lo and behold, they did. And at the weekend too. We are not imagining this weekend thing.

Lurkers - please stand up. This is what is happening to our conversation, our debate, our long read & researched posts. Deleted in the blink of an eye.

Every now and again a lurker stands up on a thread and says "I have been reading, and now I get it" - it's ALWAYS appreciated. This is the time.

@MNHQ
The thread started by Frackoff should be reinstated soon, with the offending posts deleted. The systematic rebuttals of all of Frack's lengthy posts and links was a sight to behold. It started to become clear what the end result would be when Frack began wailing about being triggered.
Also it was a marvellous demonstration of the complete emptiness behind the Trans ideology, I won't repeat my assertion from the Break it down for me Thread, but you know and I know that my assertion was and is still true.
Talking's post earlier on this thread is spot on. We've all been coerced into this ridiculous false/twilight existence. Please address the points raised in that post.
If Women can't name their oppressors how in the hell can we stand up and fight for our rights.
This has gone way beyond being courteous and kind to men that want to identify as women.
I'd really like to know why Women are still being held to a higher standard than our traditional oppressors, namely Men. On a Feminist board.

From a name changing Lurker

I've been a lurker.
Not only do I now 'get it', but I've been telling friends and family members too.
Several have now started reading these boards and telling their friends.
Older family members are boycotting M&S after I've told them about their 'blokes welcome' policy.
A friend and I are talking about starting a feminist group locally.
I've started challenging companies and organisers of children's groups in their language around sex/gender, and have had some good responses.
I have spoken to friends who have kids who don't confirm to sexist stereotypes, and pointed then in the direction of alternative perspectives to the relentless torrent of comments from woke friends about their (currently non-gender dysphoric) kids being born the wrong body (FFS).

So not only are lurkers getting it, but there is a movement going on that is unseen online, and this must be happening everywhere.

As a side note. A friend was fully on board with gender ideology, and thought I was exaggerating about the tactics of TRAs, until she personally experienced their aggression and bullying against a women's charity she works for. Funny isn't it, the more like angry, abusive males they act, the more women realise how familiar this feels...and they wake up.

IbloodyloveWomen
Funny isn't it, the more like angry, abusive males they act, the more women realise how familiar this feels...and they wake up.
Well said and true.