Trans kids

[Macareaux]

This is an interesting article in a US publication about trans kids and rapid onset gender dysphoria.

After considering many aspects of the issue and anecdotal reports and data, the writer comes to the the conclusion that the distilled problem is that there is no way of determining which children are truly trans and which are not.

If we are to progress then sooner or later these mainstream writers are going to have to have the courage to say that there is no such thing as a transgender child.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/11/andrew-sullivan-hard-questions-gender-transitions-for-young.html

If I remember correctly the first article was in a vague publication, but there was a good review of it here

The review is of the article by the Norwegian PhD student in the post just before yours (I haven't posted the papers in the same order as on the original thread). I'd forgotten about the review, even though I think I posted the link on the other thread, so thanks for posting that again.

Thanks for reposting oldcrone.

Very much hope @mnhq reinstates the thread as it sounds like there was potentially a lot of information that would be useful to reflect on with regards to safeguarding young people, online harms and how adults, teachers and the media refer to and perpetuate the ideology of transgenderism.

That article in the Times is very scary.

Share token:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-change-sorrow-j3nm9hkzw?shareToken=cf4e56ecec6cd7e2a110f5221f002508

Thanks not. That's horrifying.

I've had a reply from MNHQ about the deleted thread. I asked them to delete any posts that they felt needed to be deleted and reinstate the thread but as a thread closed to new posts. They replied: "We can't be sure that it won't happen again and given (understandably), the OP's concerns, it's just not something we can do."

Except it couldn't happen again if they didn't allow new posts on the thread, so their reply makes no sense.

In my request to reinstate the thread, I said: "This is about harm being done to children, and we shouldn't be prevented from discussing it."

So MN are aware that they are helping those who don't want us to discuss something which is harming children.

Ahhh so it was "the OP's concerns" that caused the deletion.

TBF, even on AIBU many threads these days get deleted for seemingly not going the way OPs had hoped.

Oh well, at least there are some links to the studies on Frack's deleted thread here.

MNHQ managed to lock the threads with the 16yo old OP pretending to be their mum without deleting them. If worries about further posts are a problem, just lock the thread instead of deleting it. Then Frack doesn't need to be concerned and everyone can still access the information.

I don't see why @MNHQ can't delete the offending posts, reinstate the thread but disable new posts from being added. That way it can still be read and referenced elsewhere.
There is extremely important information in that thread that should be available to the public since it involves the health and wellbeing of children and this is predominantly a parenting website.

Deleted? For goodness sake. I was looking forward to finally finding out in more detail the reasoning behind medical treatment of gender dysphoria kids. All that effort wasted! And I saw absolutely no 'doxxing', either.

So women have been baselessly accused of triggering, gaslighting and doxxing, and on the basis of those invented and erroneous accusations, all the useful discussion has gone. Really winning hearts and minds here, Frack.

In response to the suggestion for a support thread for mums with ROGD children. Please take a look at ourduty.group

We have real-life meetings (our next is Wednesday 13th November in central London)

Re trans kids being better off if they are supported and the dangers of 'conversion therapy':

Some accessible links to large quantitative studies here, as requested www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/201911/it-s-time-outlaw-transgender-conversion-efforts-in-the-us?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Thanks Frack. I will go through that in more detail tonight. I notice one of the papers is by Kristina Olsen (of "if your toddler pulls the barrettes out of her hair or drapes a towel over his head, they're probably trans" fame) and concerns a two year old (reminder for those not au fait with child psychology - a two year old would fail the "Sally Anne" test and has as yet no clear sense of other people as mentally distinct entities from themselves) so that should make for interesting bedtime reading.

If I ever hear of a practitioner in person about an actual patient saying the kind of things Kristina Olsen advocates I will report that person to their relevant health board and to the equivalent of child services. It’s abuse.

FrackOff I’ve reported your post. On the thread of yours that was deleted your recommendation to others that they share copyrighted material in breach of institutional guidelines was widely condemned and you’ve done it again here. Please refrain.

If the post doesn’t get pulled, please can people make sure they don’t use their university logins to share documents.

[Zucker says] If the gender dysphoria remits, the gender social transition and hormonal suppression can simply be stopped, as both are fully reversible. Regarding the latter, I mean this in regard to the re-institution of parameters such as the menstrual cycle in birth-assigned females

it is well document hat prolonged use of hormonal blockers affects bone density in the long term. So the effects are very much NOT reversible at all

It is very irresponsible to endorse any view that they are

Isn't Frack's post okay under the "less than 10%, quoted in the context of a discussion" rule that applies to academic papers, books and novels (poetry having stricter rules)?

I agree though they shouldn't be encouraging people to breech the rules of library usage.

I agree with Bernard btw and find the next bit of that quite from Zucker, that we don't know whether the neurological effects of blockers are reversible, even more worrying.

'sex-dimorphic neural regions of interest' refers to heterosexual attraction doesn't it?

It is less clear to what extent hormonal suppression has completely reversible effects with regard to sex-dimorphic neural regions of interest and correlated behavioral parameters

Seems to be saying that there is male behaviour and female behaviour

I’d be really interested to get some sort of definition of those behaviours

Seems a little sexist, no?

That's an awfully carefully selected quote there, isn't it? Indeed, menstruation may start after the cessation of Lupron etc (I'm not calling them "blockers" as if preventing puberty was what they were designed for, they're drugs designed to treat prostate cancer). That does not mean that no harm has been done, and that's before we even look at the larger context of how likely it is to happen.

Also, Frack, for the love of god stop telling people to abuse their academic login credentials, or encourage others to do so. If you didn't know that wasn't allowed, you do now.

It is less clear to what extent hormonal suppression has completely reversible effects with regard to sex-dimorphic neural regions of interest and correlated behavioral parameters'

Why doesn't he mention IQ points? Is he up-to-date with the research?

My understanding is nearly a 100% of children go on to cross sex hormones if they're on puberty blockers. So where is this significant pool of children who they can test as to whether or not the effects are reversible?

Puberty blockers are what cements the trajectory. How can the effects be reversible, if almost 100% of the effect is a cross sex hormone?

thanks @OldCrone, I've asked MN to delete it and will repost without the link

FrackOff I've asked MN to delete my post as well.