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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Posie Parker Interview

999 replies

wprice81 · 13/10/2019 23:23

Is anyone else aware that Posie is doing an interview with controversial youtuber, j.f. gariepy? didn't expect to see that...

OP posts:
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BeyondAvoidant · 18/10/2019 13:13

I've - in all honesty here - never seen someone ask PP what toner she uses on her fb posts. It must happen a lot.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 18/10/2019 13:14

The problem is, tequila, your finger wagging disapproval won't force people to bow to your version of integrity and admit their 'crimes', even if you paid them

Not tequila, obvs - but I wanted to reply to this
It's interesting you see it as "finger wagging" being told off, what to do if you hear a differing opinion.
Nobody's telling you what to do?
You're perfectly entitled to your view, like we all are.
Putting people above reproach, untouchable, fawning over, never allowed to question anything they do even if it's collaborating with a man who seems to have extreme anti views against women, lining their pockets by adding revenue to channel clicks.... no, as someone said we all have our line and we know where we're comfortable.

BeyondAvoidant · 18/10/2019 13:14

Maybe I'm subconsciously ignoring them though, as I'm capable of giving myself platinum hair on my own

TequilaPilates · 18/10/2019 13:16

I've - in all honesty here - never seen someone ask PP what toner she uses on her fb posts. It must happen a lot.

Have a look. They are there.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 18/10/2019 13:18

If her Facebook is too “fan girly” then surely some more robust interrogation would do it good?

Like people asking questions on here and having a differing view and not sticking to the earlier thread tone of "I love her hair" "she's so inspiring" "what a woman ovaries of steel"?
Yeah that all does sound "fan girly" and we all know how it goes when people deviate with an opinion away from that lol

Datun · 18/10/2019 13:23

Yes that's correct. There are too many "you rock" comments and "what tint do you use on your hair? How do you get that platinum colour" and not enough discussion of the topics that she posts.

Tut.

Datun · 18/10/2019 13:23

On the other hand, did you find out how she does get that platinum colour?

Goosefoot · 18/10/2019 13:34

People will come to their own decision as to whether it is ok for feminists to ally with the alt-right when there is a common goal or enemy.

People have a variety of ways they make decisions about who to ally themselves with. It's not particularly simple in reality to do so, you can find links everywhere and people have such vastly different reasons at times for believing the same things. For many they make it simple, if the group is behaving legally and without violence they may collaborate on certain issues. It doesn't imply any larger agreement with them, and if others imagine it does, they are objectively wrong.

But I think you are mistaken to use the word ally in this instance and that's the problem. Some posters are making this assumption that everyone realises that having some kind of media interaction or public discourse is a type of allying, and we all know it but just don't care or at least think on balance its worth it.

But a lot of people, myself included, do not consider those things to have anything to do with being an ally. As a matter of principle, I will talk to pretty much everyone who is not directly at the time abusing me or threatening my person, even if they think my own rights should be taken away, people like me should be killed at birth, or they believe I should live in some sort of separate ethno-state. I think it might be even more important to have this kind of discussion with people who are not allies, who are your enemies in an ideological sense.
I think that sort of ability to talk about very different, opposed, ideas is the foundation of a civilised society and a democratic society, and one where people have the ability to think through ideas and hold the beliefs that make sense to them. I think that's more foundational than feminism too - you can't have a feminist discourse without that kind of society, so I am not going to repudiate that in the name of feminism or any other set of intellectual propositions.

As for giving someone a bit of youtube income - yes, it is true that every sort of media that sends some funding into private hands will in some sense support people who I may think are wrong. That happens whatever news sources I use and frankly I am a heck of a lot more worried about the financial power of the giant media conglomerates than I am of some youtuber. Yes, he will be able to talk about his ideas as a result of making some money, and in the spirit of public discourse it's my responsibility to make a better argument. Maybe I could have my own youtube channel, and people could fund me that way. But it's the giant media conglomerates that are actually able to control a lot of the public discussion and use their financial power to shut down views they don't like and promote those they support, in a way that is wholly detrimental to democratic free speech ideals. I live with that, still read those publications, while opposing that kind of monopoly and corporate power, so I am hardly going to refuse to ever listen to an individual on youtube that poses far less risk.

2BthatUnnoticed · 18/10/2019 13:42

Ok watcha I’ll discuss Posie and her campaign.

This young woman (now detrans) had a mastectomy & full hysto before age 21. With no ovaries, she now needs regular hormones (either T or E) for the rest of her life, or she will die.

She has come to realise she’s a woman, so has now asked her Dr to prescribe her Estrogen instead of Testosterone.

He won’t give it to her.

“Well if you changed your mind about the surgery, you might change your mind about this,”

Posie Parker Interview
2BthatUnnoticed · 18/10/2019 13:47

Great post Goose

To me, talking to does NOT = allying

To a few posters - it does

So we are talking at cross purposes

Datun · 18/10/2019 13:49

To a few posters - it does

I really don't think it does.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 18/10/2019 14:54

For many they make it simple, if the group is behaving legally and without violence they may collaborate on certain issues. It doesn't imply any larger agreement with them, and if others imagine it does, they are objectively wrong

I agree it doesn't imply any larger agreement with them, you can collaborate and detest some of the other views they may have.
It does further their agenda though, and why would anyone want to further other far right disgusting views - is it a case of we have the same "enemy" in this case, (for want of a better word) so it's OK?
They're not after me this time, so I'll let it go all their other views?

Datun · 18/10/2019 15:26

Just a reminder that posie challenged his misogyny on the tape, and also said “White supremacy and the racism that fuels it has no place in a civilised society, I abhor those views and the people that hold them.

Earlywalker · 18/10/2019 15:56

I’m sure you didn’t mean to mislead datun but just to clarify Posie didn’t make that comment while she was talking with him, and whether or not you believe she really ‘challenged his misogyny’ depends on which shade of specs you’re wearing.

TequilaPilates · 18/10/2019 17:18

Goosefoot

I understand in part what you are saying and had she challenged some of his viewpoints in that video then that would be a different ballgame.

For me, if you appear alongside someone and then don't challenge some of these abhorrent views that this man has its sending a message that either you agree with him or you don't think they are important enough to challenge.

That's where my issue with it is - anyone who lets these comments go unchallenged is making them appear more acceptable.

I've got myself into some situations when I've challenged racist language when I've heard it because I don't want people to think that we all agree with it or that we all think it's ok.

That's where I come from on this - if we don't challenge views like this then it seems like it's acceptable.

Goosefoot · 18/10/2019 17:52

For me, if you appear alongside someone and then don't challenge some of these abhorrent views that this man has its sending a message that either you agree with him or you don't think they are important enough to challenge.

I'm not really sure if this is relevant in this instance, depending on what you mean.
In so far as his views came up in the conversation, I think she didn't approve of them and that was fairly clear. I don't think it's necessary or useful in such instances to make go far into areas that are not what the conversation is about, or the hosts/guests views that aren't the topic. If I am watching or reading an interview on some particular issue I am not expecting real exploration of other areas, you just can't run an interview that way, they need to have some focus.
For that matter, if you are having a conversation with someone privately, sometimes you know that you differ fundamentally on certain things and simply aren't going to discuss them, because it will get in the way of the other, more productive, discussion you are having.

We won't always come to an understanding with people about everything, but in the long term it's often these other areas where you can have a meaningful exchange which allow movement in positions later on down the line.

The impression I get from much of the left these days is that they really are afraid to do this kind of work because they fear that they may end up being the ones doing the moving and they aren't willing to take that risk. They don't trust the intellectual or moral integrity of their own position, and yet are intensely committed to maintaining it even if the other guy turns out to have something compelling to say.

Goosefoot · 18/10/2019 17:59

it does further their agenda though, and why would anyone want to further other far right disgusting views

I am not convinced that having a conversation furthers the far right agenda. In any case I think that the value of having widespread public discussions far outweighs any risk of that kind.

I would also say, labels like "far right" tend to be terms that we use to avoid really thinking about what people are saying. In reality most of these political categories have some ideas that are true or partly or worth thinking about, and most have some real issues. Especially if you avoid the temptation of just using a check-box approach to right-think and really look at the reasoning behind various viewpoints, and why people arrive at their ideas.

TequilaPilates · 18/10/2019 18:04

I would also say, labels like "far right" tend to be terms that we use to avoid really thinking about what people are saying. In reality most of these political categories have some ideas that are true or partly or worth thinking about, and most have some real issues

Are you kidding?

Datun · 18/10/2019 19:19

I’m sure you didn’t mean to mislead datun

Haha!! You naughty little thing you, you know as well as I do that the full statement had already been posted on the thread. Tch.

Datun · 18/10/2019 19:21

Anyway, I'm sure you and goosefoot will come to some kind of understanding of benefit to everyone concerned.

Goosefoot · 18/10/2019 19:41

Are you kidding?

Ah, no.

There are very few widely held sets of political views that don't have some true observations or perspectives in them. If they didn't, so many people would not find them compelling.

The right in general, and even the alt-right, are much better these days on anything relating to freedom of speech or academic freedom. Sometimes they are also better than the left on class analysis of social issues, which is an interesting development. And from the reverse perspective a lot current leftist views on race, for example, are IMO profoundly though unwittingly racist. Both seem to be anti-science but not usually about the same things.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 18/10/2019 19:45

She was replying to what you posted
you posted
as a reminder to every one on the thread
but it's haha naughty little thing, that's your comeback?
You can't rebut it, can you?
Just back to laughs and head pat's even though she was saying you weren't trying to confuse? Giving you the benefit of the doubt but no, you're coming across as that's what you were trying to do all along?
Figures.
How do people not see this, what you do?

TequilaPilates · 18/10/2019 19:50

Goosefoot

I'm sorry, I refuse to see anything good that the alt right could have to say.

Do you think the Nazis had any good points? Nice uniforms maybe?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 18/10/2019 21:14

I really don't think it does.

I don't either. The wig doesn't fit and the glasses keep falling off. Not sure why they think nobody notices.

Butterisbest · 18/10/2019 21:29

TequilaPilates
Your comment I'm sorry, I refuse to see anything good that the alt right could have to say.
And you have the audacity to accuse posters here of living in a bubble and refusing to acknowledge any other opinions.
You want posters here to demonise people that you deem to have unacceptable views. For you, your view is the only correct one, if posters don't agree with you then they are disgusting people.
There's none so blind as those that cannot see.