The doctor and the detransitioner

[Doyoumind]

Looking forward to seeing how this conversation plays out.

It's a good job Charlie is strong and able to counter the bull from Harrop et Al, but it's easy to see from the crap she's receiving that others thinking of detransitioing may be cowed from speaking up, or feel coerced into remaining in their trans identity.

I would have hoped somebody with a doctor's qualification would have more empathy and insight, though that's probably beyond Harrop

It's what she represents. The possibility that there could be enough detransitioners appearing that the media becomes properly interested and starts asking the right questions.

Quite. It certainly will reveal what lies behind their full-throated support for transitioning minors. And, while some boys are also caught up in ROGD, we already know the big majority are girls. If there are hundreds and thousands of female desisters and detransitioners, they won't be able to continue to use them as cover for their men's rights movement.

Harrop's never going to talk to Charlie. He hasn't recovered from his humiliating tv chat with Posie yet.

Thanks for posting littlbrowndog

"This is a public health crisis that our media and politicians are completely ignoring. More young people are being deceived every day, being told that the solution to their insecurity and identity problems is to get a sex change."

If someone can self-ID as trans, they can self-ID as detrans. If being trans requires a definition of gender dysphoria, then there can’t be self-ID.

Not only does Charlie represent a growing group of people who will bring questions in the right places, she has already, within just a matter of days, brought out public declarations of illogicality from people like our Adrian.

So what’s the answer, those TRAs who monitor threads? Do you require a diagnosis of GD to be transgender? Is self-ID no longer possible?

So Dr if you happen to be reading here, if Charlie’s transition/detransition experience isn’t ‘meaningful’ enough for you, what do you have to say to Sydney’s in the link littlbrowndog posted. How are you going to twist that one so the victim isn’t really a victim of this hideously warped ideology and those pushing it on vulnerable young people and people like you who are complicit in cheering them on?

I've been back on the doctor's Twitter (where there is a graphic video in his tweets & replies feed, so watch out).

He never responded to Charlie on that tweet but he has engaged with Charlie on the subject of hospital wards (where he's equating denying trans women a bed next to females is equivalent to denying lesbians, black or Jewish women a place on the ward) so she's not blocked.

It’s insane to me that our society is letting this to happen to young people. At age 18, I wasn’t even legal to buy alcohol, but I was old enough to go to a therapist and get hormones to change my gender.

This is happening to vulnerable kids much younger than I was, and the adults are AWOL.

When you walk into these clinics, you won’t really see older people around. It’s boys and girls playing dress-up, brought there by clueless parents, waiting for the appointment that could likely ruin their lives.

I hope I’m not the only one who sees a major problem with this. Our culture has set up a fast-track to gender transition that will only result in scarred bodies and ruined lives—and the medical community is complicit. I met with these doctors in person and gave them my own cash. I can tell you they did not care.

Up above from the link I posted. To

One wonders what on earth is being taught at medical school these days.

In the hopes of educating Harrop or any other doctor whose education has been diminished by queer theory I will try to explain.

Lesbians are women in exactly the same way as heterosexual women are women. We are all adult human females. Female, of the sex class that produces large, immotile gametes.

Black women are women in exactly the same way as white women are women. We are all adult human females. Female, of the sex class that produces large, immotile gametes.

Jewish women are women in exactly the same way as Christian women are women. We are all adult human females. Female, of the sex class that produces large, immotile gametes.

Transwomen by contrast are not women at all. They are adult human males. Male, of the sex class that produces small, motile gametes. They belong on the men's ward with all the other adult human males.

It isn't that complicated really.

Harrop would be very unwise to go up against Charlie. It’s one thing getting angry and aggressive at Posie, but he wouldn’t be able to contain his rage at Charlie either, and that would come across far worse. It would go beyond laughable into serious professional misconduct territory, not that the GMC seem particularly bothered.

And by Harrop’s logic, gay men shouldn’t be in a mens’ ward either. His homophobia is staggering. That man has some real issues.

Oh how bloody stupid.

What do Jewish women, lesbian women, BAME women (I wish they'd stop trying to appropriate racism here, it makes them look beyond crass), disabled women, working class women, middle class women, women from the royal family, women from the middle of the Peruvian rainforests all have in common that a TW doesn't?

Male people are not women.

You are never going to get all women ok with this. You are never going to get all women willing to pretend this - because that's the utter best outcome possible - and women have rights too.

Even my goldfish has processed this by now.

He's still arguing with Charlie that a. She isn't/wasn't trans and b. hardly anyone regrets transition compared to the number of patients who "regret" mastectomies for breast cancer.
Yes, really. He's actually comparing transition regret to breast cancer.
Or indeed lots of other common surgeries. So much hip and knee replacement regret. Perhaps they miss the grinding pain?

The argument I have seen is that trans and transitioning are two very different things, ie that just because someone de/transitions does not mean that they were/are trans.

There appears to be some rather desperate spinning going on.

ItsAllGoing I wonder if you are right: ‘trans’ has nothing to do with transitioning, transitioning was simply the Trojan horse to destroy women’s spaces (or rather keep women’s spaces but allow men into them),

As a Jewish woman, I find this incredibly offensive.

Jewish, BAME and lesbian women are all women, were born as women and statistically pose no more risk to other women than say Christian, straight or white women. There is no logical or practical reason to deny them access to women's facilities and it is very obviously racist and/or homophobic to do so.

Teanswomen, on the other hand, were not born as women, do not have female bodies (even with surgery, which only a tiny number have, they retain male chromosomes and strength), and statistically they pose a much higher risk to women as they retain male-pattern rates of offending in terms of violent and sexual crime.

How it is not racist/ homophobic to suggest that Jewish, BAME and lesbian women are not really women??!

It is racist and homophobic. Their movement is racist, homophobic and sexist as hell, and even worse, it tries to hold up these disgusting views and progressive and righteous.

“Well black women are women so men must be women too!”

Fuck me sideways.

It has been suggested, on another thread,that the whole point is to remove all distinctions and protections, equality is the Trojan horse. When self id means anyone can be either sex, and with self id being extended to race and disability no one will be able to claim discrimination. What gender pay gap for instance? Another policy Harrop is right behind. Along with this chap who's idea of being pro women appears to be pro women being put firmly in their place.

I think it is more than that.

Last night Harrop tweeted that he intends to attend next year's WPATH conference. This is the big international conference for medical professionals involved in gender transition, and inevitably seems quite US dominated.

There is not obviously a big UK name in medical gender transition since the demise (MN advanced search is your friend) of Dr Helen Webberley.

I posted a flavour of the links between the big players in the US and in the UK (Susie Green is a WPATH regular) on this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3749807-The-Tragedy-of-the-Trans-Child

I have been around too long. When the dear Doctor first burst onto the scene there was speculation about why he was risking his medical career, with some believing he was steering his way towards a place in the gender medicine niche. It looks as if they were right.

Somewhere there is a good article about the money behind the movement, particularly in the US. Someone reposted it recently, but I can't remember where.

WPATH presents itself as a professional organisation but it is an American-based interest/lobby group. You don’t need to be a professional or qualifications or experience to join (unlike a professional organisation).