Help with note to teacher

[tinkerbellvspredator]

Can someone help me phrase a short note to my DS's teacher that will get my point across while trying to avoid a defensive/eye roll reaction?

DS has just started reception and has asked me "why are the girls more well behaved than the boys" clearly the teacher or TA has said this.

I don't mind if DS gets told off if he's misbehaving (note I don't have concerns with his behaviour as in the nursery class his report said he was a 'role model'). He is in a large class (30) and there are more boys than girls. I don't think ALL the boys will have been more badly behaved than all the girls.

I've got:
Labelling children results in them living down/up to the stereotype
Research shows that teachers tend to ignore the same bad behaviour in girls that they pick up in boys
I doubt every single boy was not meeting the behaviour standard, leaving them confused as to why they're being told they're not behaving. If this is a repeated message they will be demoralised or think they may as well be badly behaved.

Also is there an article I could share that covers this well?

Just that it isn't always good girls sat by disruptive boys. It can also be the other way round.

That's all.

It can... I'm sure. How often is it though. That a disruptive girl has a stoic quiet boy sat next to her to absorb it.

Which is what it is let's be Frank.

Usually they are simply offered as a target, to absorb the difficult behaviour.

Don’t send it. Maybe just encourage your son to continue his good behaviour and it will be noticed.

My Y2 DD (outgoing and dominant but well behaved) has just been moved tables to sit between two boys who quite frankly sound like a total pain in the arse. She doesn’t know she is being used to regulate behaviour but obviously she is. Day one involved her getting kicked in the shins under the table and day two involved one of them ripping a page out of her maths book.

Often enough for the statement "it's always girls" to simply be not true.

Quite often nice boy sat by loud boy. A lot of teachers I know tend to sit students in girl pairs or boy pairs.

I am not arguing against the general premise that sexism exists in schools, but that it's complex to manage.

So teacher wants class divided into two line.
''Girl that side, boys that side''

Kids all get up, girls form a line , boys faff about.

Girls are clearly, in this case, better behaved than the boys. TA says ''Come on boys, girls are better behaved than you , look they are ready ''

Really doesn't warrent a note from a mummy totally over reading the situation.

' A lot of teachers I know tend to sit students in girl pairs or boy pairs.'

Oh that's weird I think all the other teachers on the thread have said boy girl boy girl seems to work best.

Is the dynamic the same if it's a quiet boy? Are they taking away the same messages? Are they so likely to just sit there and take it while getting kicked etc. Don't know.

So the threads on here that I've seen, and it's a lot, it's always girls being put in the firing line.

You seem to be saying it happens to boys too, so, so what, or what are you saying?

Don't you think there is a particularly worrying message with girls being told they must try really hard to have positive impact on a boy who kicks them etc, that that is their role? So essentially they are to Foster a relationship with him to try to improve him, and take his behaviour on the chin?

I see more generalisation on mumsnet about men being bad and women being good, than I've ever seen in a school, or indeed anywhere in real life.

Do you?

I see namalt all over the shop.

I was always the good girl sat next to the naughty boy and hated it. Then i had good boys and discovered they got sat next to naughty boys too. But it is different in that as a girl i really didnt want to sit next to a 'smelly boy' . But my son might find a boy making farting noises, fidgeting, poking, kicking them and so on really annoying, but they dont see the fact they are a boy as part of the indignity.

I'm pretty sure my friend's quiet (generally!) well-behaved son was being sat with less well-behaved boys in primary school, from things he's said. The fact is, no child should be being used to absorb another child's bad behaviour. I understand if it's just about not putting children who encourage each other to behave badly together, but if the well-behaved child is being abused mentally or physically, and I think there are a number of examples of that on this thread, then the school or teacher need to deal with that behaviour, not just expect the well-behaved child to put up with it. Whatever gender any of these children are.

Tbh, when it comes to seating plans you usually take into account individual personalities.

Classes are broadly divided into the core trouble makers(those who make it their business to derail lessons); the peripheral trouble makers (those who won't cause trouble on their own but will given the right conditions); those who go out of their way to be noticeably well behaved; everyone else.

The core group are usually boys in the main.
The peripheral group are usually 'weaker' boys and troublesome girls.
The well behaved kids are majority girls.
And then everyone else.

Seating is often done based on personality/behavioural profile. Which is why you often get well behaved girls next to poorly behaved boys. Classrooms are small, space is limited which makes it hard.

As I said, it isn't that boys are badly behaved innately but that by the time they start school, they have learnt it's ok. That comes from home.

And my evidence to back that up comes from the fact that I am a parent and have spent enough time around other parents and their children to ee that, broadly, boys have their behaviour explained away as inevitable far more often than girls do.

Fraggling, all I am saying is don't make claims that it's always girls because it isn't always.

I have no idea where you got this idea from that I think it's the girl's job to teach the boys good behaviour. Or be kicked and accept it. The only expectation the teacher has is that the girl will do her work and the boy will settle down and do his too.

The girls/boys pairs was just to point out that I have worked with students sat in different formations.

You seem to be trying to do a "gotcha" on what I say, I am just trying to describe what I see in school.

then the school or teacher need to deal with that behaviour,

Whilst I agree, it's difficult!

All the children have to be taught. A lot of HTs won't deal.with the situation because, if you followed the behaviour policy to the letter, there are children (and I'm not talking chn with SN) who'd be excluded by break time every day.

The stalls happen at the send to HT stage because I've seen far too many who will give the child a job to do for half an hour, give them a sticker for being so helpful and send them back to a class with a bit of a pep talk - no actual sanction.

Parents get called in but it makes little difference. Exclusions are avoided at all costs. And behaviour management strategies aren't one size fits all. Teaching groups I'm in on fb are already full of enthusiastic young teachers who gave up their entire summer holidays to create the most beautiful classrooms over the summer holidays - really beautiful some of them are - and who are now in tears because of the behaviour of, usually, a group of boys.

And it all starts at home.

The stalls happen at the send to HT

The problems.

It’s not always boys, my DD apparently asked to move to a new table because one of her female friends on the same table talks all the time. DD says she finds it hard to concentrate when her friend talks through everything and also, more tellingly I think, she doesn’t want the teacher to think she is involved and tell her off.

But it does seem more prevalent with boys. My DD is the only female in an after school club and she says nearly all of the children constantly talk over the teacher and mess about. It’s annoying that we are paying for something she isn’t really enjoying just because of others who can’t behave. School won’t refund either.

I'm pretty sure my friend's quiet (generally!) well-behaved son was being sat with less well-behaved boys in primary school, from things he's said.

I agree it’s not ideal and not fair, but I think finding an alternative is hard. If all the less well behaved children are sat together I think it would be even worse for the class as a whole. Teachers just have to do the best they can with the children they have in the space that they’ve got. I suppose we could have firmer discipline for those who are disruptive - but as we know from mumsnet plenty of mummys and daddys are quick to complain when their precious little ones are not allowed to ‘be themselves’ and are faced with any kind of negativity (discipline) of any kind...

In 21 years as a primary school teacher I've never once seen the situation that you descibe Fraggling (your post 15:44). Still what do I know. I'm sure you know more about what goes on in a classroom than the likes if me.

I bet you're a laugh at dinner parties!!!!

What you've never had kids kicking under the table?
Ok.

You think your experience outweighs all the women on mm who have said their dds have been been in this situation? I mean i don't go looking for threads about it and still have seen loads, with lots of women reporting this. They are all lying, then? Why would they do that?

Ds2 says 'the boys are naughty', and prefers to play with the girls. No one has told him this, it's his observation. FWIW I think boys are generally noisier and more boisterous than girls. This can be seen as naughty behaviour. From my personal observations at pick up time it's the boys who are misbehaving and their own mothers who are remonstrating with them! Not DS2 of course 😇

Yes fraggling it would appear we are all lying....

I have had and regularly have conversations with both my dds trying to break down gender stereotypes and also to keep their nose down stay quiet and get ok with their work. Leave the other kids to the teacher to deal with.

So any time they come home talking about naughty boys or asking why they always get stuck sat next to boys who wont behave or are deliberately annoying, this comes directly from their observations and experiences at school.

I've also had many a conversation about learning to ignore back ground noise and low.level disruption, as I feel it's a life skill all kids need to learn because classrooms arent and never will be silent spaces.

But theres alot that goes beyond that. And what can you say when the experiences and observations speak for themselves.

If it was all merely coincidence then every kid would be stuck next to every other kid at some point in their schooling. The fact that its often a select few on a "rota" implies that it very much is a calculated move in many circumstances and fir thise if us with kids who are or who have been on this rota, well it's frustratingfor people to come along and say cos they have never seen it then it doesnt happen.

Unless you have worked in.every single class in every one of the thousands of schools across the country then you cant actually say that.

Bloody women eh. Making stuff up all the time.

Hmm...I work in a primary school, and it's pretty clear that the boys are more emotionally dysregulated than the girls (generally speaking - there are some dysregulated girls and some very well-regulated boys). There's also more disrespect for female teachers from boys. I only ever hear verbal threats from boys.

Why ? I'm not sure. I think the disrespect is a family thing, same with the verbal threats. These boys have been exposed to this somewhere.

The dysregulation is probably somewhat related to maturation, and presentation of things like ADHD and ASD - typical girl presentation is a lot quieter and easier to miss than typical boy presentation. Girls also seem socialised to gain teacher approval, boys less socialised to value teacher approval.

Both girls and boys are active and energetic, and neither sex finds it easy to sit for long periods of time. Girls wriggle, boys poke. (Do some girls poke ? Yes. Do some boys wriggle ? Sure. In general, there is less pro-social behaviour from the boys.

Because I am always looking for unconcious bias in myself, I spend a lot of time observing the boys, waiting for positive behaviour to notice and praise, so that they don't miss out. Side effect ? We tend to take the girls' efforts for granted, and so the girls miss out on the attention and praise.

I have a boy myself. I don't think boys are intrinsically incapable, or disruptive. Nor are they naturally more naughty or poorly behaved.

I think they learn those behaviours though, and have those behaviours reinforced at home. Which is quite depressing really, the number of young boys acting out masculinity in ways that don't contribute to learning. They were taught that sh*t, and they didn't learn it from their primary school teachers.

jane
Thank you for your honest and detailed post. It's funny you should mention "side effects" although this one seems to be a more even split I think between boys and girls, its certainly noticed, in that when you have a quiet well behaved child who does what they are supposed to, helps the teacher out, tidies the classroom, takes hurt kids to the medical room or helps others open their food at lunch and sits there taking all the behaviour from the kids next to them , only to be passed over for star of the week over and over and over again in favour of someone who's a pain on the back side but managed to behave fit a day or 2.. In fact dd1 never even got it. I tried to do my bit at home by explaining that as you can sit still on the carpet and you dont find it hard to behave at school it would be meaningless.

But what you said is very true. I almost felt/feel bad in some ways. Behaving yourself and getting your work.done should pay off . At some point. Somehow. Instead it just gets you hurt