Islam is right about women

[Popchyk]

Interesting article in Spiked.

Mentions Posie, Harry the Owl etc.

www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/26/the-genius-of-the-islam-is-right-about-women-stunt/

A sign with the words 'Islam is right about women' was put up in a town in Massachusetts.

Reactions were interesting. People (mainly women) trying, and failing, to articulate what was wrong with it. But expressing discomfort/offence anyway.

From the article:

"The reason for their dilemma is obvious enough to anyone who has been paying attention. Western society has managed to convince itself (at least in public) that any statement criticising any aspect of Islam is, by definition, bigotry. As a result, Western societies have effectively decided to enforce Islamic restrictions on blasphemy, and called it ‘tolerance’".

The strain of conforming to this lie is evident in the fumbling attempts by the interviewees to explain their objections.

"I think the source of the objection is as follows: ‘I thought we had all agreed to pretend not to have any negative opinions about Islam. But this statement forces me either to agree with it, which I don’t, or disagree with it, which I’m not allowed to.’

The result is utter confusion on the part of the interviewees about how to signal their obedience to the unspoken lie".

blame christian!

I guess it depends what you think Islam says about women.

Yes, exactly table. I’m not a Muslim. I don’t really know what Islam says about women. I have female Muslim friends and know many more Muslim women who are educated to degree level, have an equal relationship with their husbands (from what they say) and have careers. They all wear the hijab but I’ve never spoken with them about it. I’d like to have a conversation with them about it but I’m a chicken.

Not read article as it's from Spiked but this strikes me as unlikely.

"Reactions were interesting. People (mainly women) trying, and failing, to articulate what was wrong with it. But expressing discomfort/offence anyway."

Most people's reactions would be, I guess, to not really know precisely what Islam - or most religions - say about women. I see all religion as being broadly anti-women so it's "interesting" why Spiked is focusing on Islam.

I agree with Nuffaluff. The Muslim women I know are not oppressed at all.
But I also find it weird that the article claims that no-one wants to criticise Islam.

Muslims are supposed to emulate the first community of Muslims. The first Muslim was the prophet's wife who was an business woman and his employer. Another woman was a warrior, another was the most famous teacher in the history of Islam.

Suppose someone said "Judaism is right about women," and it transpired that by Judaism they meant the black-clad beringletted ultra-orthodox you see around these parts walking out on Saturday mornings.

Other jews are available.

"Not read article as it's from Spiked but this strikes me as unlikely".

There's a video with the article, Swedish.

Where locals give their reactions.

Spiked wasn't focusing on Islam. It was covering the story of the sign "Islam is right about women". Hard to imagine how they could talk about the sign without referencing Islam.

But, as you say, you wouldn't know that because you didn't read the article.

blame christian

who is christian?

I saw this last week and meant to look for a discussion on here about it. The work tying themselves up in knots as we all know that we are not supposed to say anything negative about Islam but also can't agree with the anti woman sentiment it then implies.

It's fucking genius to be honest and we've no doubt not seen the last.

small point (NOT!) There are many variations (some due to local culture - which is important) in Christianity & how it is practiced & the role of women etc - just look at the USA let alone elsewhere (Mormon Fundamentalists & even than there are different versions) It is the same in Islam. A minority are extremist (& there are some in Christianity -minor matter of birth control, hmm? rules on abortion of rape victims etc) Many Muslims live within the modern society - & re the hijab - many nuns wore similar habits (& if you ever went to some Catholic Convent Schools - well they had some interesting attitudes - believe me!) As for criticism - there is genuine enquiry & there is bigoted assumption - If you read the bible (the Old Testament in particular) you get: a man nearly sacrificing his son, polygamy with men marrying sisters, stoning of adulaters etc, etc. Thing is societies & cultures change over times some more slowly than others, some perhaps, too fast.

The woke tying themselves up in knots as we all know that we are not supposed to say anything negative about Islam but also can't agree with the anti woman sentiment it then implies.

Yes it's what happens when people follow branding instead of think.

Islam religions are as diverse as any other. The phrase could mean anything.

I don't know what 'islam' says about women, like all religions there is no one interpretation.

Like all religions some elements use it as a reason to oppress women.

No wonder people were confused.

It's a racist / whatever religion is is called sign.

It could just s really have said 'Christians were right about women' but that wouldn't be so much fun would it.

The article is about a stunt that trolls people with a statement.

No one takes responsibility for posting the sign, the content is ambiguous. The article is about trolling, and how successful it can be in creating defensive behaviours and a knee jerk reaction.
Its straight out of the Ben Shapiro handbook.

Reactions to the sign are as pointless as trying to explain statistics to Chris Morris using a rubber band.

correction: adulterers - not exactly a common word these days!

It's basically a meaningless sentence. I don't see any point in trying to justify why it's offensive because it carries no specific meaning. Not more than "Christianism is right about women", or Judeism or Buddhism or Pastafarianism.

Thanks, Wax.

That was my take on it. The "story" about the sign isn't about the sign at all, it is about people's reactions to the sign. What they say and what they don't say.

Like the Adult Human Female thing that was referenced in the article.

Many people were lining up to say how offensive that was. But couldn't explain why in any coherent terms. But that didn't matter - the overarching imperative was was to publicly signal their obedience to authority (the Stonewall-trained 'liberal' left).

Just find it interesting.

but also can't agree with the anti woman sentiment it then implies.

It only implies an anti-woman sentiment if you equate Islam with being Anti-women.

It's not particularly anti or pro women.

Many people were lining up to say how offensive that was. But couldn't explain why in any coherent terms. But that didn't matter - the overarching imperative was was to publicly signal their obedience to authority (the Stonewall-trained 'liberal' left).

I think you have this spot on.

Many people were lining up to say how offensive that was. But couldn't explain why in any coherent terms. But that didn't matter - the overarching imperative was was to publicly signal their obedience to authority (the Stonewall-trained 'liberal' left).

It works both ways, interestingly.
People tend to react in the way they were trained to.

Rarely do we ask what it means or even if it means something. That's how Trump, Farage et al manage to get through with meaningless soundbites.

The problem with reactions to that sign is that we have stopped looking for deeper meanings.

Reading the quran and hadith i think is more helpful than talking to muslims. Find a quran translation site and actually read that than curated articles or websites about islam and women..then you can make your mind up.

The statemen islam is right about women is neutral as pp said could swing either way depending on what you think islam ia on about when it comes to women.

People frequently make comments about Islam which shows their ignorance. If they read a bit more or knew more Muslim people they realise that. Instead they cite extremist opinions and countries where women do not have equal status (Saudi Arabia is a good example).

Mohammed was keen on the emancipation of women; before he came along, women in his region were not allowed to own property or have money of their own, some lived in extremely polygamous marriages. Mohammed said that anything a woman owns, money or property, is hers as is anything she earns. Also said no one should take more than four wives and then only with the agreement of the first or other wives. All of that was quite revolutionary for his time.

Not all Muslims live up to Mohammed's principal but we can't condemn an entire group on the basis of a few.

I live in England, SE London to be precise, and have always lived iand worked n a cosmopolitan area - which became more so as time went on.

I've never met a Muslim woman who was unable to make choices or follow her own career path and from what I've seen over the years, the women are generally more religious and make more decisions regarding family, etc.

Therefore, stereotypes mean little (unless you live in a community where stereotypes exist on every street); even amongst the orthodox Jewish communities, women are very powerful. They're better educated than their men and extremely forceful when it comes to decisions, also run successful businesses.

Christianity is historically patriarchal. It's only in fairly recent times that women have been emancipated.

It only implies an anti-woman sentiment if you equate Islam with being Anti-women.

Well, there are two absolutely consistent elements you find in Muslim-majority countries.*

1. Women's rights are poor
2. The rights of non-Muslims are poor.

Of course you can find human rights abuses across a range of countries with differing ideologies, but Islamic countries are consistent in maintaining the inferior position and abuse of women and non-Muslims.

*and I know the response to this will be 'that's the people, not the religion' but there really is no other way to judge a religion or ideology other than by how it's implemented.