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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Safeguarding in UK Schools - new Statutory Guidance + existing classroom programme teaching 6yr olds to masturbate

148 replies

MoleSmokes · 24/09/2019 16:58

I am going to link to a part of another current thread ("Writing to Your MP") and try to bring the discussion here in case it gets lost over there or ends up dominating the thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3698659-Writing-to-your-MP?msgid=90288651

In the UK, a child cannot legally consent to sexual acts and related activities. It is also an offence under law for an adult to engage in some activities in the presence of a child.

A UK "sexologist" Jonny Hunt is running a programme in Warwickshire school classrooms that includes teaching and encouraging children from age 6 how to masturbate.

Is this against the law?

Sexual Offences Act 2003 section 8 - Causing or inciting a child under 13 to engage in sexual activity.

He appears to have links to the Kinsey Institute. As part of the Kinsey's research into sexuality in the USA, parents were recruited and were required to masturbate their infants at home and record how the babies responded. The records of these "experiments" are in the public domain.

The Daily Mail covered this story recently (link in linked post above).

Related, covered in the same thread, the DfE have just released this:

Keeping children safe in education
Statutory guidance for schools and colleges on safeguarding children and safer recruitment

However, under "Sexual Abuse" there is no mention of age of consent and the impression is given that school children are able to engage in consensual sex, with anyone.

I have flagged @Spero (Sarah Philimore) and she is going to have a look at all this and advise if it is as bad as it looks.

The discussion starts here, in the thread "Writing to Your MP"

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Another current thread, about the views of "sexologist" James Cantor on paedophilia "as a valid neurological sexuality" that could be added to the LGBTQ+ alphabet, is related in that it is relevant to sexualising children and consent.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3699723-dr-james-cantor-anti-transing-children-pro-paedophilia-as-valid-sexuality

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
NeurotrashWarrior · 26/09/2019 22:04

This highlights how, as usual, any old person seems to be able to develop any material they want for schools to use, outside the actual curriculum, and there's bugger all gatekeeping.

Endofthedays · 26/09/2019 22:05

This is all bizarre. Children should not be learning that masturbating in public is equivalent to picking your nose. It’s just grooming.

NeurotrashWarrior · 26/09/2019 22:11

This is the same shift that the NSPCC has made. Moving away from 'it's never okay for someone to touch your privates, even if it feels nice' to a more consenting framing in which children are encouraged to divide touch into food or bad depending on how it feels.

Children need very clear concrete black or white guidance; verbal reasoning is still developing in some normal 6/7 year olds let alone a 4-5 year old, not to mention how confusing that statement is from an emotional point of view; close family members etc. It's just sickening.

DuMondeB · 26/09/2019 23:55

Heeeeerrrrreeeesssss Jonny!

Or at least, here is his YouTube channel.

m.youtube.com/channel/UC5iYUDJZAko-yB2zetiRNvw/videos

Safeguarding in UK Schools - new Statutory Guidance + existing classroom programme teaching 6yr olds to masturbate
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 27/09/2019 00:38

Some of the people producing this stuff don't seem to understand what a child is, neurologically speaking. They're not just very small adults. They're different, both legally and in terms of how their brains work. "Does this touch feel good or bad? Communicate whether you want it to continue or stop" and then into a discussion of consent would make sense when talking to an adult. It does not make sense when talking to a 6 year old, because, and if you're reading Jonny then pay attention because this is rather important, children cannot consent to being touched in a sexual way. Legally cannot consent, as well as because they won't understand the conversation. If a person following your written guidance was to say "well that 6 year old didn't tell me to stop, guvnor" then that would not save them from arrest because, again, children cannot consent to being touched in a sexual way. There is no "negotiation" to be had here.

Warwickshire Council, please also note the above, and consider it when deciding which materials to approve for use in schools.

Thingybob · 27/09/2019 01:16

I've just been looking at Jonny's website and there is so much shite written there that I don't know where to start but this jumped out at me.

Self stimulation among children from 3 months is common, involving friction, rhythmic rocking, pressing thighs together or rubbing genitals against objects. This can be self soothing and can be accompanied by facial flushing, grunting and moaning

www.goingofftherails.co.uk/healthy-sexual-development/

F Off Jonny. Anyone that believes crap like that shouldn't be within 100 miles of a child.

NeurotrashWarrior · 27/09/2019 05:54

Bloody hell.

NeurotrashWarrior · 27/09/2019 06:01

Precisely prodigal.

Children sometimes go along with playground games they are really not enjoying as they're confused. Their 'friends' are playing with them so they think they're having fun when actually they're not.

NSPCC page is similar, where the hell is this crap coming from?

www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-safe/healthy-sexual-behaviour-children-young-people/

NeurotrashWarrior · 27/09/2019 06:02

Why is it always men running these things?

joystir59 · 27/09/2019 06:10

James Safechuck and Wade Robson did not find Michael Jackson's abuse of them frightening or worrying because they were groomed into it- it was normalised as fun and 'how we show our love'

HandsOffMyRights · 27/09/2019 06:15

I can only conclude that organisations have been groomed. That paedophiles have succesfully infiltrated these orgs.

It makes me livid. My son's Stonewall Champion School is now 'in bed' with another group whose (male, obviously) leader is also dubious. So what does the school do? Invite them in to 'teach' children all sorts - and ignore parental safeguarding concerns.

NeurotrashWarrior · 27/09/2019 07:19

Linking relevant thread to join the dots

Anal sex for 13 year olds? Warwickshire again... www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3701564-Anal-sex-for-13-year-olds-Warwickshire-again

Wurzelsnewhead · 27/09/2019 09:53

The website attributing sexual development to under 5s is perverted.
Warwickshire Council need to take a good hard look at themselves- enabling this ‘sexologist’ to peddle his abhorrent and dangerous views to school children.
The acceptance of queer theory is leading us down the road to hell.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/09/2019 20:58

I’ve seen some comments on twitter. I have no idea what some of the words are. However I don’t think teaching 13 years olds that licking someone’s bum hole is an acceptable thing... is that even a thing?!🤢

Ringdonna · 30/09/2019 09:15

Yes it is rimming, quite a common thing.

Dangerfloof · 30/09/2019 11:53

Yes it is rimming, quite a common thing
Among 13 year olds? You sure?

TiredofthisBS · 30/09/2019 13:06

While I'm sure many people know what rimming is. I doubt that many people actually have taken part in the act and certainly not 13 year olds.

Personally we couldn't think of anything worse than licking someone else's arsehole 🤢. It's also something I wouldn't want taught to my child and I'm no prude.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 30/09/2019 13:22

There were other terms used - maybe it’s what ‘tha kids’ say... either way, how is this relevant to a 13 year old?

They may know that dogs sniff each other’s bums but for gods sake why describe this activity in detail?

HandsOffMyRights · 30/09/2019 13:25

I have two 13 year olds and I think rimming would be news to them and their circle of friends.

Even in those old enough to give consent, I wonder why Ring describes this as common.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 30/09/2019 13:44

Teaching in the classroom normalises these things.

Now I may be an old fuddy duddy but - surely teaching this (plus choking, smacking/beating etc) would encourage more of ‘that sort of thing’. Isn’t it the pornifocation of sex?

Women have been murdered after being on the receiving end of this type of behaviour - and the men generally not punished as if it was an assault or even a ‘serious’ crime at all (some even playing the pity ‘poor wee me’ card). Something really stinks here.

How strongly do they teach ‘YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO’ and about how to spot emotional blackmail ‘if you love me, you’d.....’, ‘everyone does it’...

Lumene · 01/10/2019 13:28

Self stimulation among children from 3 months is common, involving friction, rhythmic rocking, pressing thighs together or rubbing genitals against objects. This can be self soothing and can be accompanied by facial flushing, grunting and moaning

Err really?!?

This reminds me of some of Dr Em’s threads on twitter where she deconstructs academics writing in support of paedophilia

MoleSmokes · 28/10/2019 16:56

This has been mentioned in more recent Mumsnet threads already but it is worth mentioning here as it addresses some of the concerns raised in this thread, ie. that this is all a fuss about nothing!

"Click Off" and "Safe Schools Alliance UK" joined forces to deal with Warwickshire's promotion of the "Respect Yourself" programme.

I was horrified to see that they discovered that the materials were much worse than I realised, with graphic descriptions of sexual practices common in pornography rather than the playground.

Whilst this might be intended as "adult facing" guidance for teachers (I think that was the terminology used earlier) it is on the open internet, on a site linked to by schools using the programme, ie. clearly signposted for any children visiting their school website.

(I am catching up on this issue and am not clear yet how much of this material is/was intended for use in the classroom or by children.)

Warwickshire have, apparently, withdrawn endorsement of the "Respect Yourself" web site without comment.

"Click Off" and "Safe Schools Alliance UK" have asked to meet Warwickshire County Council Chief Executive, Monica Fogarty:

Archived twitter thread: archive.md/DmLEr

Truly ironic that - "Respect Yourself" - given the nature of the degrading and dangerous sexual practices it promotes. Definitions of all sorts of activities but not, so far as I am aware, explanations about "biohazards" and risks of physical let alone psychological injury and trauma.

I had not heard of "Click Off" before:

www.clickoff.org

"We aim to raise awareness about the harms of pornography, to share our learning with legislators and build a movement against pornography in the UK.

Click Off draws from the research and experience of feminists. We are non-partisan and our opposition to pornography is not faith-based.

We rely entirely on donations, please consider donating to support our work."

The current state of play with Warwickshire is detailed here - please read and consider some easy "armchair activism" to help with this :

"Open letter to Warwickshire CC: Stop normalising the use of pornography to children"

There is further info buried on this page - scroll down to:

"How a Sadistic Industry is Being Sanitised"

Fifth paragraph after that heading, the info about Warwickshire kicks in:

www.clickoff.org/articles/

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STATUTORY GUIDANCE ON SAFEGUARDING IN SCHOOLS - NO MENTION OF AGE OF CONSENT

My apologies for contributing to the confusion about which Statutory Guidance I was referring to, ie. by failing to link, as promised, to the existing discussion in the "Writing to your MP" thread.

The subject seemed closely bound to the Warwickshire Schools issue so I lumped them both together in one thread here. I won't be doing anything like that again Blush

I cannot find anything to suggest that this issue has been followed up but maybe someone else knows?

As a reminder of what this is all about . . . copied and pasted from OP but with links added this time:

"Keeping children safe in education
Statutory guidance for schools and colleges on safeguarding children and safer recruitment"

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/828587/Keeping_children_safe_in_education_part_one.pdf

However, under "Sexual Abuse" there is no mention of age of consent and the impression is given that school children are able to engage in consensual sex, with anyone.

I have flagged @Spero (Sarah Philimore) and she is going to have a look at all this and advise if it is as bad as it looks.

The discussion starts here, in the thread "Writing to Your MP"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3698659-Writing-to-your-MP?msgid=90304780

  • - - - -
There are 18 consecutive posts in the "Writing to your MP" thread where I copied and pasted the relevant sections from the Statutory Guidance on Safeguarding in Schools AND the relevant sections from the CPS Guidance on Child Sexual Abuse and the Sexual Offences Act.
OP posts:
MEMJY · 29/10/2019 22:36

I have also read the guidelines as well as the whole All about Me scheme.
It isn’t just guidance for teachers. Even in year 2 children are to discuss a scenario “Autumn sits in the bath and touches herself between her legs, because it feels nice.
Now you tell me that isn’t teaching children about masturbation???!
This scenario is repeated in Year 5.
And then there are several mentions to remind the children about ‘the rules for self stimulation’.
Although I’m not a daily mail reader, the article was fair.

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