Sandra in finance

[BillStickersIsInnocent]

I know I’ve seen this somewhere but can’t find it - can anyone help?

It’s a feminist critique of comments like ‘I don’t care what Wendy in accounts says’ or ‘Yes, this is politically important, Tina in finance’

Basically taking an age- related name and using it to shame and belittle women through assuming homogenous behaviour.

Does anyone know what I’m on about?

@Aaarrgghhh I agree it started like that (I'm on reddit too, far too much). It's gone beyond those limited jokes now though, the Karen stuff is often used with no real humour, just sneering disdain for middle-aged women.

@Kiwiinkits Men frequently get upset on the Internet about being described as gammon, which is the closest equivalent I can think of (and is also an unpleasant, lazy thing to call someone, although it isn't quite the same).

Aaarrgghh. Missing the point spectacularly. Coz it’s only bantz innit? 🙄

I can't get upset about the 'speak to the manager haircut' thing. Its a meme because its true!

I agree that 'thanks Karen' is a bit sexist, but people do use names such as Ian or Nigel to make a similar point about men.

I remember someone in Baby Names suggesting Ian as a name. One of the replies was along the lines of 'is he going to come out of the womb as a 52 year old divorced local council IT manager, because if not, dont call him that!'

Ah yes, I had forgotten about 'gammon'. That seems to be both aimed at and used exclusively by men in the age 40-60 age bracket though

Jess Phillips referred to "Brenda in Asda" in her Sunday Times interview which irked me somewhat. Poor Brenda, the most ordinary of ordinary of the working class mass.

Happens with Nigel and Gary too.

What about Tim-Nice-But-Dim or Hooray Henry, it's male stereotyping?

Middle aged men get accused of being Male Pale and Stale, which is pretty offensive tbh (if you can be bothered getting offended that is)

I've not really encountered this before, although it rings a bell.

Aside from the proposed misogyny could it be possible that it's come about because these are actually the type of demographic to complain to the manager?

I can’t get too worked up about this. Yes, you could argue that jokes that rely on stereotypes about a particular demographic group are offensive, but middle aged women are far from the only group that get stereotyped in a sneery way. We choose the ones that appeal to our own biases, but what about
Henry, Tarquin, Hugo
Camilla, Phoebe, Cressida
Betty, Mavis, Beryl
Wayne, Lee, Gavin
Owl, Fox, Hobbit
Morgane, Crystalle, Candi...

This sounds like the kind of thing that @ wordspinster would blog about. She is a feminist linguist and writes a really readable blog debuk.wordpress.com/2019/09/07/the-battle-of-the-big-girls-blouse/

Also my phone is capitalising Male - wtf? Does it know where I’m posting

Just a small reference point wrt this; it's because of this place. (Link is Wikipédia).

Just a small reference point wrt this; it's because of this place. (Link is Wikipédia).

Ah, finally an explanation! Thanks.

Aside from the proposed misogyny could it be possible that it's come about because these are actually the type of demographic to complain to the manager?

People who aren't doormats, is that, who need to be mocked as uppity?

Women shouldn't complain to managers (who are imagined to be male)

Middle aged men get accused of being Male Pale and Stale, which is pretty offensive tbh (if you can be bothered getting offended that is)

Male Pale and Stale is mostly used to highlight that power/authority is predominantly held by white middle aged men, not ridicule individuals.

Male Pale and Stale

This is applied to institutions (in particular universities) and to some aspects of curricula esp literature and history. It's merely a phrase characterising lack of diversity.

I most often saw the "Thanks, Karen" stuff being used by black people when dealing with white women calling the police on them for no reason.

I have one of these names. It does piss me off that it has become a stupid meme. It's always my female friends who identify as feminists that make these jokes for some reason. They know my name and they know I can see them when they share their shit jokes on facebook.
I don't even fit in the stupid stereotype (i'm young, I work in a creative industry and I don't ever ask to speak to managers) so I know it's not really aimed at me - but it still bothers me. It's both sexism and ageism. It will be another set of names in 5 years time.

Male Pale and Stale is mostly used to highlight that power/authority is predominantly held by white middle aged men, not ridicule individuals.

I think the 'speak to the manager' meme is similar. It highlights a particular demographic of women that use their power/authority as a form of control over less privileged and often much younger individuals, e.g. waiting staff.

Owl, Fox, Hobbit
Morgane, Crystalle, Candi...

These refer to real people, not stereotypes.

I've heard that 'Susan in accounts' line used loads on films, in stand up comedy routines, in lazy articles... the main thing that pisses me off is the lack of originality. Wasn't hilarious ten years ago, isn't funny now.

I think the 'speak to the manager' meme is similar. It highlights a particular demographic of women that use their power/authority as a form of control over less privileged and often much younger individuals, e.g. waiting staff. are experienced enough to know their consumer rights and mature enough to have the confidence to insist that their rights be upheld.

Fixed it for you.

At least the woman speaking to the manager is trying to get the problem solved in a way giving that gives the junior staff member a chance of still having a job afterwards. Do you think that the Primark shop assistant criticised by TPAs for gatekeeping the female changing room still had a job after TPAs piled on Primark's social media accounts?

women that use their power/authority as a form of control

Reading this again.

If your job involves serving others, the customer doesn't have power. Your manager has power. The customer can request management intervention but the manager does not have to acquiesce to the customer's demands. You, as the server, can also request management intervention e.g. when dealing with a difficult situation in which you don't know how to proceed. I do this in my (technical, £33k, highly-skilled) job frequently because my employer's policies are labyrinthine.

The purpose of the manager is to provide a definitive decision as to the scope and nature of the services that the server is to provide. If you, the server, have done your job correctly, your manager should back your decisions. If they don't, the problem isn't the customer abusing power, it's the manager abusing power.

This whole "speak to the manager haircut" thing seems to me like sour grapes from staff who tried to fob customers off and got called out on it.

Interesting. I was at a male dominated US IT conference recently (I was one of 4 women) and I kept hearing the phrase "Susie in Accounts" or "Susie in Finance". It irked me somewhat though I couldnt put my finger on why as I didnt realise this was a "thing". Now I know why. At the time I kept thinking why always Susie and why always finance/accounts? But I could see it was always used to represent "dumb non-technical user".

Language is powerful isn't it? Though we also have a thread on here where women are saying it's perfectly fine to self-identify as a housewife so what can you fucking do?