Sandra in finance

[BillStickersIsInnocent]

I know I’ve seen this somewhere but can’t find it - can anyone help?

It’s a feminist critique of comments like ‘I don’t care what Wendy in accounts says’ or ‘Yes, this is politically important, Tina in finance’

Basically taking an age- related name and using it to shame and belittle women through assuming homogenous behaviour.

Does anyone know what I’m on about?

Mumsnet is ingrained sexist and agiest (and a bit classist) though for a site that is aimed at women it is awful sometimes I was reading .Karen from accounts acting like she is on a hen night. On a recent thread it is ridiculous and I agree with you op

Would it therefor be ok if it was put as ‘I don’t care what Michael in accounts says’ or ‘Yes, this is politically important, John in finance’

These would be fine to use as they are very neutral- they're typical names for the default human- white, male, straight, middle class, middlingly intelligent. They don't carry meaning in the joke. In this meme the name doesn't imply just the default human, but specifically the default thick, vapid human so the name is female and some variant on Keith Waterhouse's Sharon and Tracey.

This article contains a good analysis of why default male names are used in cartoons, memes etc unless there os a particular reason (showing contempt for vacuousness in this instance) for them to be female.

Oh cross posted with a few pps

And the misogyny is the reason women's names change so fast too - they gain these negatives connotations so people move away from them.
The male names like John and Michael are solid classic names because you don't have a constant stream of people poking fun at the owner of the name.

Apparently it is ok for men to dress up as a grotesque caricature of a woman as
pantomime dames like the ugly sisters and Widow Twanky.

We know they are taking the piss out of older women.

That's an interesting point Mangoes. Hadn't thought of that.

This thread has reminded me of the thread about the lapdancing bar the other week, where Courtney the pert-breasted accountant/empowered exotic dancer made many sneery Karen and Susan put downs about women who object to the commodification and objectification of other women's bodies. Which kind of revealed a lot about Courtney.

Yes I’ve noticed these everywhere- mainly Susan, Sandra and Karen. I’ve also noticed it in everyday language as well- ‘Don’t be such a Karen!’ and so on.

I haven’t noticed any male equivalent. ‘Yes thank you Barry’ would be good for a mansplainer

Yes, Mangoes, that's a thought. If you look on the Baby Names board, there are almost no women's names that can be said to be ageless/classless and which won't make somebody or other go "Urgh, you're having a baby, not a little old lady!" Maybe Katherine, but I've seen even that dismissed as boring and stuffy. Boy's names, however, are usually judged by how "strong" or "weak" they are, and names that might sound a bit feminine are not popular. They might also reject names like Kai and Jaxon on class grounds, but never because a name is too old or middle-aged.

There have been male equivalents though: Sharon and Tracey ran alongside Kevin, Wayne and Gary and Nigel in my day. These names are now all on the way out, literally at risk of going extinct due to the negative connotations. Rodney and Derek aren't doing too well either.

It is ageist and sexist.

I think there are male names that are old fashioned - Trevor, Barry, Nigel. And all names go through cycles. Flower names like Rose and Daisy were what my great aunts, born in Edwardian times, were called, and we're seen as dated back in the 1980s - now they're trendy, and the typical girls names of my generation, Karen, Sharon, etc. are seen as dated.

But it's still a sexist putdown - men supposedly gain gravitas and wisdom in middle age; women are meant to have the good grace to become invisible.

Agree it is sexist and ageist.

The name pattern seems to recycle to babies once it's great-grandparent and upwards. Hence lots of names I strongly associated with old people now being babies once more. George, Alfred, Fred/Freddie, Stanley, Archie, Arthur. Wasn't Oscar a no-go for decades after Oscar Wilde?

Billstickers As an aside, Male gets capitalised as it is the capital of the Maldives.

Are there many other male equivalents? I've never met a Keith I like and subconsciously or not I definitely attach a particular stereotype to it.

Karen From Finance is an Australian man.

‘Karen From Finance is the premiere 'queen of corporate' from Melbourne, Australia. She lives alone with her budgie 'Dantè' and enjoys tax time, office-based bonding activities, and invoice archiving.’

(Google)

A drag queen.

Doesn’t it stem from the “sure, jan” thing. I don’t see anything wrong with the memes about Karen’s etc. They are funny. And we all know the type.

Aaarrgghh is you rtft, you will see plenty of explanations as to what's wrong with it. What is the "type"? Middle-aged women who don't accept substandard service and are branded "difficult" as a result?

FatherFintanFay No, how about some people do complain for no reason and that’s where the joke has stemmed from. People witnessing this themselves, I use reddit a lot too so I guess that plays into me finding it funny? It’s clearly come from some person seem to have a certain hairstyle that probably made a fool of themselves one day and hence this “character” is born.. it was also part of that “starter pack” thing that went around. It’s a joke, it’s not any deeper than that.

I know young Sandras and Karens.

I don't think it's age related, I think it's boredom related. I think it's supposed to conjure up the image if an average woman stuck in her job.

Calm down ladies. It's just banter. Where's your sense of humour?

Where have I heard that before? Oh yes, it's the perennial excuse of sexist twats since about five minutes past the dawn of time.

Ah yes the bantz and we have no sense of humour

Just to clarify, the Can I Speak to the Manager bob is not just a normal bob. It's a harsh looking wedge thing with stripey highlights. I always had a different name for it, before the memes, because it's so common in the northern town I live in and tends to belong to a particular sort if brassy, pursed lips type of woman. The fact is the stereotype about that hairdo really does exist for a reason.

Agree about the Karen in accounts thing though.

Harmless. I can’t imagine a group of men on the internet getting upset about Harry Enfield’s Loadsamoney or John Cleese’s Basil Faulty. These memes are the modern equivalent. Character play. Big deal!
Getting knickers in a knot over this stuff is wasting time that could be spent on ensuring young women aren’t lured by the Jeffrey Epsteins of this world, for example, or are free from domestic violence or have abortion rights.

And is there a modern equivalent meme for men, Kiwi?

"Sure, Jan" is a direct quote from a film (Marcia Brady to Jan Brady in The Brady Bunch". It's not the same thing at all.

Mumsnet is one of sexist, ageist and classist sites I've ever come across, not to mention boasting as well. Oh and I'll add, sensitive and snowflake like as well.

These memes are really nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I've seen plenty of male focussed one's such as 'oh shut up Noel, we know you vape' and 'alright Tommy, we're aware you voted for Brexit'. They aren't just aimed at females of certain age but of course, the most sensitive type of people will always be offended and think it's just aimed them.

I'm all for women getting the respect they deserve but I also have a sense of humour and can pass off stereotype memes as a joke.

We are too serious in this world now, it's really sad and depressing