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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Beware the petition to OUP re dictionary definitions of women

76 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/09/2019 13:34

There is a petition doing the rounds to change the definition of "woman" in the dictionary, and it all sounds very good.

Have you ever searched online for the definition of a woman? 'Bitch, besom, piece, bit, mare, baggage, wench, petticoat, frail, bird, bint, biddy, filly' - these are the words which the Oxford's English Dictionary online tells us mean the same as ‘woman’. This sexist dictionary must change.

This petition is to ask Oxford University Press to:

^Eliminate all phrases and definitions that discriminate against and patronise women and/or connote men’s ownership of women;
Enlarge the dictionary's entry for ‘woman’;^

Sounds good, but then tucked in at the end

Include examples representative of minorities, for example, a transgender woman, a lesbian woman, etc.

Disappointingly this is from the Fawcett society.

OP posts:
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/09/2019 13:36

I was just coming on here to say this!

Beware the petition to OUP re dictionary definitions of women
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/09/2019 13:37

Counter-petition? 30000 signatories my arse!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/09/2019 13:39

30000 signatories my arse

The problem is that it genuinely is a worthy and valid petition apart from that.

OP posts:
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/09/2019 13:43

I say keep the derogatory terms - as derogatory terms. Why whitewash these dated terms - which women also use anyway? Words exist, can't deny them.

I'm not sure what the male equivalents are though!

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 16/09/2019 13:47

What Fekko said. Words are words. Some of them are nasty words. But none of them mean their exact opposite afaik? So woman =/= man or any synonyms thereof.

LangCleg · 16/09/2019 13:49

languages.oup.com/press/news/2019/8/20/mapping-woman-in-the-oxford-dictionary-of-english-and-oxford-thesaurus-of-english

Obfuscating shitgibbons.

They'd do better putting some new swear words in so I could use them when telling them what I think about this.

2BthatUnnoticed · 16/09/2019 13:49

Nothing wrong with current definition. Leave as is.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/09/2019 13:49

Petition link: www.change.org/p/change-oxford-dictionary-s-sexist-definition-of-woman

OP posts:
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/09/2019 13:50

shitgibbons. Is that in there? It ought to be and is my new Word of the Day..

CassianAndor · 16/09/2019 13:50

only that's not what the dictionary says. I have access to the full online OED and under 'besom it says 'A contemptuous or jocular designation for a woman', 'filly' says 'Applied to a young lively girl', waaay down the list under 'piece' is 'A woman or girl; in later use usually derogatory, with connotation of a woman regarded as a sexual object.'

so the entire petition is stupid.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/09/2019 13:51

It's not just about derogatory words though - if you read the petition (linked above in case of deletion), it's about women being defined in relation to men, and generally outdated and sexist definitions of women. Because the OED is the definitive work these definitions end up everywhere.

OP posts:
thirdfiddle · 16/09/2019 13:53

I think they may be looking at a thesaurus not a dictionary there. Before you can quote a transwoman as an example of a woman, you need a definition of woman that actually includes TW. Still waiting for a non circular suggestion.

Dictionaries document what words exist and what they mean. By all means tag derogatory ones as derogatory, but you can't just omit them from the dictionary. What happens when you come across a word you've not seen before? You look it up. If the dictionary says (derog.) you know what it means and to question the source and not to use the word yourself.

zebrasdontwearbras · 16/09/2019 13:57

er -- I just searched for the definition of woman online, and got the ubiquitous "adult human female." None of those other words came up?

"Bint" is defined as a "derogatory term for a woman or girl" - which it is.

"Besom" as "brush or broom".

What are they talking about???

Qcng · 16/09/2019 13:58

You can't remove the derogatory words used to describe women from the dictionary!

Leave them there. They do actually exist.

But don't change the definition of woman.
Woman = adult human female

Transwomen = something else entirely.

The petition is nonsense!

CassianAndor · 16/09/2019 13:58

I can't see the examples they cite at all under 'woman' but it's a huge entry. Interesting that nowhere on this petition do they link to these citations.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/09/2019 13:59

Besom - maybe as in the Scottish ‘bizzum’ (as in ‘ya cheeky wee bizzum’). Applies to small children of both sexes!

zebrasdontwearbras · 16/09/2019 14:01

Put "woman" into an online thesauraus and it doesn't bring up any of those words either.

Nor does (for eg) bitch or bint bring up the word "woman" as a synonym, although that's a google search, not specifically OED (you have to register for OED, and I can't be arsed).

Persifleur · 16/09/2019 14:05

There's room somewhere for cuntless cunts. Not sure, but nowadays even when I see something like the Fawcett Society I wonder if there might be one or two about. Hmm
I think it to.myself quite often when I see another piece of gender fuckwittery.
I wonder what the OED says about astroturf?

MythicalBiologicalFennel · 16/09/2019 14:09

Most of those are not synonyms for woman Confused They might be associated with people of the female sex. Another branch of lexicology.

Anyway the job of a dictionary is to collect actual words. All it can do is reflect current language usage - hold a mirror up to society. Turns our our society is deeply misogynistic so it has a lot of negative words to refer to women.

So this petition is a lot of bollocks, pants, rubbish etc

Whatisthisfuckery · 16/09/2019 14:12

The dictionary definition of woman already covers all lesbians.

Fuck off with your lesbophobic bollocks.

MockersthefeMANist · 16/09/2019 14:13

We are not France.

The OED records use. It does not pass judgement on what is or is not 'correct' usage, it only notes that usage exists.

zebrasdontwearbras · 16/09/2019 14:50

I'm sure they'll find a way to wedge transwoman into the definition of woman eventually. But it does make other definitions problematic - for example if the word woman includes "anyone who identifies as a woman" - which is problematic in itself because it's circular - what happens to the definitions of female and male?

What about the penis - currently a "male sexual organ" - but women can have them too? So a male or female sexual organ, or a sexual organ - like it occurs randomly, regardless of sex. Already, comments such as "only males have penises" are subject to deletion on Twitter.

I feel a bit sorry for the arbitrators of the OED now. I'm not sure they'll be able to withstand the trans onslaught, which means so much language changing, and women - actual women - losing a word that has defined them as a class for centuries - and the inability to define ourselves without including males. Which isn't very feminist in my book.

CassianAndor · 16/09/2019 14:53

I really don't think they will. The OED know exactly what makes a definition.

zebrasdontwearbras · 16/09/2019 14:58

Certainly hope so, Cassian. I know that the TRAs get extremely upset when presented with the dictionary definition of woman though.

littlbrowndog · 16/09/2019 15:05

Omg my favourite ever. The haddock getting owned on live telly 💪💪💪💪💪🔥🔥🔥

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